Harrell Website

[JoeG]

Frank, no disrepect but you or no one else will tell me what to do. I hope that is very clear!

Guess you've never been married----

[Rick H]

Frank,
I am actually laughing.

Rick H.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]


Frank, no disrepect but you or no one else will tell me what to do. I hope that is very clear!

Guess you've never been married----

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I stand corrected.

Rick H.

[55chevy]

Man..the Rabbit boys are just on a roll here lately They banned me from their piece of crap site the other day because I made an objectional post to something someone said and then they edited my post... After I re-edited it they deleted it... After I was banned from the site I told them to delete all my posts.

here's the crybabys reply

[ QUOTE ]
as soon as all the other sites including your favorite removes all my pictures and info.let me fill you in too mr motion guru.you recently told someone who posted they didn't have a motion car with the expert knowledge you have from reading magazines.well guess what!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Gilpin
To: Tim Lopata
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: DETROITHORSEPOWER


I want all my posts on your site (including the pics I've posted) removed.

Thank you.

[Rick H]

Good morning all.

First my statement to follow is not to place quilt, blame or any sort of bashing on anyone involved on this or the other site. Just a remark about this whole mess. I am actually writting this in a calm manner, hoping to get my point across without malice.

I am not taking sides either way on the issue of the car because I don't know a thing about the vehicle. I am just stating my feelings based on what has been said.

As in all disputes there are 2 sides to every story and like most story's it's the strongest writting or push if you will that win's out 99% of the time. When differences flare up between two parties it will always be the one shouting the loudest that gets the most attention and can sway even the most deadfast individual to the other side.
As in any court of law, it's the best use of supporting evidence that convinces the jury of either guilt or innocence. (Ok, except for the OJ case).

I am not taking sides on this but after awhile the silence generated by the ummmmmmmm, silent party will start to cast doubts to even those who have in the future stood in defense of the him.
Think about it. Haven't you always believed in something only to hear another version and found yourself saying, hmm that just might be. The power of persuasion is very strong.

In this case there is some pretty strong slamming going on and I don't care who you are but to the casual observer and even the most supported member it has to but some sort of doubt in your mind.

I am not saying that Tom has to refute any of what has been said, it's his car no matter what the pedigree and he can say what he wants about it BUT I got to believe that there are others who would want to remove any sort of doubt and know either way so as to get this mess resolved and move on.

My point? (not sure I had one) As long as the bashing continues without rebuttal it's going to leave some doubt in the minds of supporters, I don't care who you are, that's my belief.

Ok now please don't shoot me.

Rick H.

P.S. Everyone have a safe New Year

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't know much about funny cars, but I was sitting at the table in Englishtown several years ago with Libby, Tom, et al, discussing the unique characteristics of Tom's car - which was why it was confirmed as being the real FC. I was a sponge to this type of info. The best part? The owners of DH's '67, & '68 were sitting at a table with DH's mechanic - how can you beat that?

[moparts]

[ QUOTE ]
After looking at these two pictures you can tell the cars are not the same. Like I said before show me pictures of the car before the resto. The question is easy Tom is your car real or a clone,a simple yes or no will do. Ed



[/ QUOTE ]

I will run through this once quickly so listen up.

1. The picture you are comparing the completed car to is one of 3 that was used to restore the car. In order for it to be posted it had to be scanned and put back together since it was larger than the scanner would do. The angle of the two pictures is not exact though close.

2. There are 2 or 3 things that anyone can see is different. Rear wheels (still looking for the right one's),

rear quarter windows (at the time of this pic., which was about 1 hour after completion, we had not found any of the blue shaded plexiglass that they used)

Fuel and water tanks (after ordering and returning 3 sets of tanks to an outfit in California we decided to go with the closest they had come up with, not right but we needed to get the car to a show the next week I think)

Rear spoiler ?????? maybe there is a difference, maybe not. The spoiler was almost completly broken off the car when we started on it. The previous owners had used aircraft stripper and putty knives to remove old paint and even the gell coat from the body. In places the fiberglass was eaten all the way through.

3. Look at the lower ladder bar bracket...we were told that this was wrong on the car at Englishtown. When we showed Mr Libby these pictures he said that he must have forgot that they were on the car. We chose to install the front ladder bar in this bracket until we could run the car and find out how much traction the car had. We figured that wheel spin would be better than too much traction the first few times out. Now here is a question...if the car that Mr Libby worked on most of the time didn't have the lower bracket...then could it have been a different car?

4. Now for the tinwork...the chassis and body had been cut and redone several times in it's life. Engine had been moved who know's how many times. I cut off at least 3 different rear mounting tabs from the chassis. Every time the engine was moved the body was cut to fit. The body tin work had at least 3,000 rivets in it and needed another 1,000 to make all the metal stop flapping. We spent several day's tring to find pictures good enough to restore the tin work back to origional, but no one took detailed pics of the tin work that we could find. The tin work in the car had been cut and modified several times, moving engine, manual trans. with hand brake, etc. After talking to Bob Gibson from Ill. (who has done several funny cars) he told us that no 2 cars were ever done the same on tin work. Usually simpler was better, if the tinwork done its job then that was all that was required.

5. I know that the car is not 100% correct....but I will bet that it is at least 85%. We knew when restoring the car that there was some things that we didn't have enough information on. At Englishtown Mr. Libby was telling us a story of how the car was wrecked and the left front fender busted and repaired. We all walked over to the car and sure enough there was the patch on the fender just like what he described. Dale P. pointed out 2 or 3 safety items that we needed to address on the engine. Bruce Larson was very helpful that day at Englishtown with advice and help that was priceless. But at no time, not from anyone there, was the authenticity of the car questioned.

So to answer your question:

All the stories and history of the car fit when restoration was started. Besides modifications done to chassis and body the parts matched the pictures.

When car was shown for the first time Mechanics and Drivers from that time period verified the car. Some with stories of things that happened, some by looking the car over and just saying man that brings back some good memories.

I can say that Tom and myself have had a blast restoring, showing, talking about and running the car. Lots of hours and miles have been put into this car over the last 3 or 4 years.

So is it real because They said so?

Or is it a fake because They said so?

I guess after reading all of this crap on both websites is the one thing that still amazes me, is if Tom feels he has a legit DH car, as he has been claiming all these years (even on business cards) then why hasn't he produced the documentation to the car, whether paperwork or otherwise....As someone else pointed out..not saying anything in a public manner when confronted with possible contrary evidence leads to an assumption the evidence is correct. Tom should want to rectify that...

I think it is evident to many that there are a lot of morons on that site, but truth be told there are morons here as well..complete with their "stars"...just read some of the post when someone post an umpopular thought or subject. One side can't hold themselves above others when some of the same people posting on this thread have at various times been EXTREMELY confrontational and downright asses (I'm sure I fall into that catagory at least once as well..)

It goes without saying that since this site was the first "supercar" website and the owners (the Clary's) felt to need to remove certain people, that when those people feel the owner's car is now is in question they might be alittle overzealous. It still doesn't excuse the manner in which they post however. This along with just some really stupid people overall on both sites, leads to the discussion being more on a 6th grade level and folks "forgetting" that there is an actual bonafide topic to discuss... Amazing that some people on both sites probably run companies and decide the fate of way bigger things other than cars that hardly get driven...makes one wonder.

I guess I'm amazed that this car was allowed to be called a DH car since at least 2000 (based on Tom's post) without someone stepping up and actually asking what proof there is... What paperwork is there? What research methods were used to find evidence? What sources were used? Old memeories, photos, etc? How were the final conclusions made? Maybe as a result of this website and who Tom is (in my limited knowledge of the man, he seems to be "ok") the normal questions didn't come up or were assumed to be ok. I know from dealing with military after action reports details and memeory can be sketchy after only a few hours...So if relying on 20+ years they can be wrong..Not saying that was done here, but if that is the only means of confiming something then IMO it is shaky from a research prospective.. Also let's face it people make honest mistakes and confirm wrong things..happens all the time..Ask people who witnessed a tramtic event...many views of the same situation..Not sure if that happend here as I obviosuly wasn't around for the conversations..just food for thought..

It is funny to me though how everyone is glossing over the real topic here...After all someone post a car on Ebay and within hours guys here and everywhere pick it apart. People are quick to point out "caution fan" issues, but apparently not wanting to discuss the vaidiaty of someones claim to have a historical car??? Doesn't make much sense to me..IMO the current situation with respect to the "DH" car would be like me saying I own one of Erich Hartmann's BF-109G's "Gustav" (the highest scoring fighter ace in history, 352 confirms)and never having to prove it...Then when someone post what could be credible evidence to the contrary people just minimzing it..It would be a historically significant piece and worth more than another BF109G based on WHO it belonged to..I know Tom is being quoted as saying his car is worth upwards of 200k, BUT that is really probably only IF it is a DH car or has a direct lineage to DH..Another fliptop car more than likely wouldn't be worth that..So as long as Tom's car is called a DH car it will always be worth more, and generate more interest (magazine, trackside, etc).

To me it appears that instead of looking at the info that one person (USA1) on the "dreaded" other website provided..apparently through some significant research..people on BOTH sides are focusing on extra BS..lawsuits, name calling, personal attacks, etc. I don't knwo "USA1" from Adam..based on his profile there it appears he is an attorney, and I would suspect if true well versed in researching a topic. He has posted pics of Huston Platt's (another known drag racer..although certainly not as popular or maybe more importantly marketable as DH) drag car and provided actual documentaion to his points. People seem to be "overlooking" this and trying to make the discussion about other BS topics..Everyone keeps talking about "pics" of the Clary's car before it was restored..where are these pics? Do they exist? IMO "USA1" seems like he makes valid points to why he feels Tom's car ISN'T the DH car it is reported to be. Why haven't his post been directly addressed in a public manner (this is the way they were evidently presented) by Tom? If someone reports a car to be something and there is ANY skuttlebutt to the contrary I would think the owner would want to squash it. After all in this market it can be damning..

I guess being an "outsider" on all three sites (here, there and Rabbitt's) means I have a different prospective. I'm not bound by friendships, loyalty or a sense of "holding my tongue." I have and always will be a student of history, and I'll always appreciate research and finding the truth to a question. I can see the irony IF Tom's car isn't a DH car as afterall this site has made it a focal point to call out questionable cars and makes no bones about doing it... IT is a really good thing that has helped everyone gain knowledge about correctness and made people aware of potential fakes. It would suck though if the "head guy" was guilty of being "overzealous" in his interest to bringing a potential historical car to light and then when confronted with possible photographic contrary evidence didn't address it..Hope that isn't the case as it is a neat car either way..if the car is proven to be another car hope the same "zeal" will go to righting the wrong.

In closing I truly have no stake in any of this..it really won't affect me in any way..whatever the outcome is..I would only hope as being an avid "musclecar" enthuiast the truth comes out. Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous New Year.

G S Carlson

[Kim_Howie]

Greg, The question I have is USA1 has made all these statements. WHO is he "BATMAN" I would like to know???

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Greg, what type of paperwork do you expect to find with a FC? I think it was already said that there two DH cars in '68 - hence the obvious differences, what's the issue?