I know you guys will tell me like it is ..

[njsteve]

I always liked flaucinaucinihilipilification myself. It refers to the process by which you determine something is useless. Here, I'll use it in a sentence:

"Bob's flaucinaucinihilipilification of his lawyer led to him saving a bunch of money in legal fees at the end of the year."

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
I think trucks are a little different than cars.Trucks are titled to the FRAME where a car is titled to the BODY!At least this is my understanding so please correct me if I am wrong.So actually a truck would not fall into this catagory by changing body parts!Maybe this is whay body shops do this with the trucks!

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, you may be on to something with the big rigs frame number registration thing. I was thinking he was refering to the average pickup truck which is registered to the dash VIN.

[bulletpruf]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are the legal facts, not opinions on some of the above comments:

1) A VIN tag is an absolutely sacred item under the law. You can change quarter panels, roofs, subframes, engines, rears, transmissions, tissue dispensers, etc., to your hearts content but NEVER mess with a VIN tag. Heck, you can even swap out your cowl tag listing the original color and options on your car and you wont face criminal charges. (You might get sued in a civil court later if you sell the car to someone and misrepresent it as something it isn't but that is not the same a criminal charges. (civil court = money penalty, versus criminal court = jail time penalty)


[/ QUOTE ]

Some states will allow you to remove a VIN tag if necessary to repair a car. Believe some require you to have a state trooper or similar official there to verify.

You're correct that federal law also addresses VIN removal; have also looked that up, but don't recall what the exact prohibitions were.

Anyone purchasing this car or a similar one would need to be familiar with the ramifications of state and federal law before purchasing a car like this one. Certainly think it would be permissible to build a car around the remnants of this one, assuming the VIN tag was not removed from the cowl of this car and placed on a "donor" body.

Scott

[RamAirDave]

If you ask me, I do not see a "car" in this auction. Just a part of a car with the tags/numbers attached to it.

If someone is looking to build a car, there are thousands of better options out there to choose from. In this case, it is just to build a "real" BB car. If it were a non X-code, 44 or even 11, it would be scrap metal. All someone would want are the tags and hiddens.

I know there isnt a clear-cut line about what is considered a car and what isnt. But this one isnt near that line IMO.

[king_midas]

You see RamRod Dave, you're the most correct yet (besides me, of course)... It shouldn't make any difference regarding building what you want, and not paying attention to numbers. Look at the Porsche guys; they build what they want out of early 911 tubs (I digress...).

The problem is that the Chevy hobby rewards this activity (the return to original) via monetary return. Thus, there is a built-in mindset to "F" people, or at least play the shell-game, in regards to what's under the paint. It's not like this is a secret, so my problem with njsteve is that a well-executed re-body is no different than replacing all of the rusted panels around the cowl, and then calling that maneuver an accurate restoration.

It's all bollocks, really...

So at that point, what's the sense in getting all bent-up about laws, and I don't know how you could say that someone re-bodying a car is even illegal. All Camullets started out the same car from a platform perspective (except for 6 or 8-cyl designations by VIN), so realistically, there isn't a difference between a base motor V-8 car and an L-89, except for what's hung on the car after it is partially-assembled. In this el-cheapo assembly-line sense, there is no mistaking a Camullet for a 427 Cobra, nor should there be any concern about how someone decides to put one together 40 years later.

The laws are made to keep people from stealing 2004 Jeep Cherokees and Honda Accords, and re-VINing them, and then selling to someone as a used car. Lumping old cars into this classification is ridiculous, preposterous even, and why would law enforcement even care? I'd like to see someone try to find law enforcement that would give a hoot regarding a '68 Camullet re-body... A lawyer maybe, but even that is a stretch.

It's not like the Camullet re-bodyer is running a chop-shop or a criminal syndicate.

That being said, once again, isn't someone just re-assembling a car from parts when re-bodying, just the same as if every panel is replaced on a car? It makes no sense to not think about it like this. Taking this further, you guys talk about "Black-listing", etc... That's really none of your business, is it? Why stick your nose into someone else's business? I don't understand...

njsteve has been officially deputized by the VIN po-po... The "Fife" of the VIN!

[Hylton]

Midas, I believe there is a bit of flaucinaucinihilipilification in the content of your last post.

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
The laws are made to keep people from stealing 2004 Jeep Cherokees and Honda Accords, and re-VINing them, and then selling to someone as a used car. Lumping old cars into this classification is ridiculous, preposterous even, and why would law enforcement even care? I'd like to see someone try to find law enforcement that would give a hoot regarding a '68 Camullet re-body... A lawyer maybe, but even that is a stretch.

It's not like the Camullet re-bodyer is running a chop-shop or a criminal syndicate.

That being said, once again, isn't someone just re-assembling a car from parts when re-bodying, just the same as if every panel is replaced on a car? It makes no sense to not think about it like this. Taking this further, you guys talk about "Black-listing", etc... That's really none of your business, is it? Why stick your nose into someone else's business? I don't understand...

njsteve has been officially deputized by the VIN po-po... The "Fife" of the VIN!

[/ QUOTE ]

1) If they are all the same car then I should be able to get an original one of the 69 ZL1s for the same price as one of the 100,000 plus 6 cyl cars. -It's about the pedigree and provenance. That is what makes the cars, or any antique, or collectible item, valuable. It is the ability to verify the pedigree of an object back to it's birth. If it doesn't matter to you that your car was an original COPO, and it may or may not be now, that's fine, but it doesn't give you the legal right to recreate/rebody one and pass it off as the real deal. That is what the law is there to protect against. VIN swapping is a form of counterfeiting in essense, if not in reality.

2) Just because it is far easier to take the VIN off of one body and rivet it onto another one, instead of expensively restoring and replacing every single rusted original panel doesn't make it legal, just easy. If restoring these cars was easy everybody would have a 1000 point car out there.

3) I can put it this way: I could paint you a copy of a Van Gogh, slap on a duplicate signature and try to sell it to you for $17,000,000, but that doesn't make it worth what a real Van Gogh is worth. And I would definitely get prosecuted for that efort.

4) As for the law being directed at newer cars only, you would be very surprised at the reality of the situation. It is rare to see an old fashioned, chop shop'n, VIN swapp'n, car stealin' case get prosecuted at the federal level. It's all about the value of these cars now and the press coverage. If someone rebodies a $800,000 ZL1 by taking the VIN off of a crushed, burnt hulk and just slaps that VIN on a 6 cyl body, that is basically a "shooting fish in a barrel" criminal case for a federal prosecutor. They would be foaming at the mouth at the prospect of being in the news for one of their cases. It's an easy conviction with a whole lot of publicity potential (read that as career advancement for those lawyer types). Just look at the publicity that Barrett Jackson Ramchargers Hemi Cuda case got, and that is just a civil case, not a criminal one. (Even though it's not a VIN case but a defamation/misrepresentation case)

I am more than happy to take my official oath of office as Barney "Anti-VIN Swappin" Fife.

Barney sez: "Nip VIN Swappin in the bud"




Nip it, Nip it, Nip it!!!

[69LM1]

IF I would have bought this, I would have just sent it to the goodmark installation center in Georigia. For +/-$15,000.00 they will send you back an entire car built around that firewall (less finish body work). No VIN or TTag swapping needed. No violation of any laws.

http://www.goodmarkindustries.com/GIC.htm


Personally, if it is a L78, then I think that it is well worth saving.

Rich

[njsteve]

Interestingly enough, you are probably correct on that interpretation.

I like the "no walk in customers please" on their website. I wonder if they have a drive up window?

[Joe]

Steve ,
there you go again , your one track mind is running straight forward .
I never said ( Never ) said i was taking the Vin off that body , i wanted to rebuild it from the cowl back .
Ok did you read that right ? rebuild it from the cowl back .
can you say challenge ? something new to attempt ?
save a car ? restore them don't crush them ..