Nice '68 Hurst Olds on eBay

[MosportGreen66]

I have a question about the red inner fenders of these Olds cars. Is that red oxide? If so, is it the same red oxide that is found on the bottom on all 2nd generation camaros? Thanks!

sorry to get off topic.

[427TJ]

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Anyone notice the latest car to show up in Kevin Suydam's collection:

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What happened to the '68 Hurst car that got rolled (literally) after Kevin made a deal to buy it?

[SmallHurst]

I love this, something I can answer. For the red inner fenders, they were plastic and red colored (easy answer). For the harder one, the difference between the 69 H/O motor and the 70 w 30 motor is actually minor. The 69 H/O moved the outside air induction (OAI) from under the bumper scoops (68 & 69 W30's and Ramrod w31's) to hood scoops dumping into the top of the air cleaner which was sealed to the hood (think cowl induction system with the flapper valve being on top of the air cleaner). The intake for the '69 H/O was a one year piece. The PCV was placed in the valley of the intake. All were supposed to have 'D' heads on them with 'W' & 'Z' exhaust manifolds in place. The '70 w30 motor replaced the cast iron intake with an aluminium piece, 'F' heads, and a modified OAI setup. The '69 motor was definately the precursor to the '70 w-30 motor.

Dave or Casey, I do not have the cam numbers in front of me. Could you please help me out on this one!

[SmallHurst]

In '68, there were a couple of 'engineering exercises' that made their way out into the world. One of them spent a great deal of time at ATCO raceway in Jersey. As for the '69 H/O convertables, 3 was the official number, but there was a story behind that. Hurst kept one car for engagements east of the 'big muddy' one on the west. The car for the west engagements was involved in an accident in New Mexico and totaled out. The powers that be had the 3rd one built to replace the totaled unit.

My friend in Iowa has one of the '69 units and they are in process of finishing up the '68 unit that was at Atco. The '68 is being finished as it was intended, BIG metalflake gold with black accents and Hurst wheels all the way around. The '68 still has the experimental 455 with a dial back distributor. The other '69 is in Cali, rotting away under a tree!

[StealthBird]

I believe the 70 W-30 engines were a bit more unique than the 69 H/O. The 70 W-30 used specific "F" heads (arguably the best Olds heads, except for maybe the "C" castings), special exhaust manifolds, aluminum intake, much wilder cam (328 duration in the 4-speed), and was available with the W-27 rear end.

I always wondered why Olds chose the red inner fenders for their 66-69 W-30 cars, used them on the 68 H/O, but went to black on the 69 H/O, then back to red for the 70 W-30. Maybe it they just didn't like the look of the red inners with a white/gold paint scheme?

[Belair62]

Compare the 68 H/O motor with the W30...

[StealthBird]

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Interesting sidelight on another GM "edict" was the minimum of 10# per adv hp. On the 68 W31s, the title weight is 3250 and the advertised hp is 325 (surprise, surprise). That's not the peak hp as it was closer to 375. They spec'd it at 5600 RPM to stay within the edict, and anyone whose driven one knows there's a whole lot more all the way up past 6500. It also kept it under the 350 adv hp on the 68 442's to avoid a little more embarassment there.

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Dave, this also happened to the 67-69 Firebird 400's. Since the Firebird used the same 400 cube 350 hp engine as the GTO did, the lighter 3450 lb. Firebird wouldn't pass the 10# per advertised hp rule, so Pontiac underated the Firebird engine (on paper) to 325 hp. GM didn't buy this "fuzzy math", so Pontiac ended up installing a throttle stop tab on all 67-69 Firebird 400's to make GM happy, effectively limiting the engine to 3/4 throttle. The tab was very easy to remove. When removed, the lighter Firebird could easily outrun the GTO, a fact that road testers back then enjoyed pointing out.

Even when the 370 hp RAIV engine made it into the 3700 lb. 1969 GTO, it was rated at 345 hp in the 3450 lb. Firebird.

It must have been fun working at GM Engineering back then!

[SmallHurst]

'D' heads were specific to only the '68 and '69 W30 and H/O's. These heads flowed almost as well as the 'F' heads on the 70 W30. I will refer you to the chart on head flows that my buddy has put together, MidAm Performance

As for the '68 motor, they differed by having an a/c motor and a non-a/c motor. The a/c motor used a milder cam and 'C' casting heads while the non-air car received the 'D' heads and the more agressive cam. The '68 used the standard 442 manifold.

[retengw31]

All those convertibles were built on line as standard 442's before the Hurst program began. They were converted afterwards to the Hurst trim and packages. Once we started building the on line groups, they were pretty well set as to what they were with no special variations other than normal Cutlass/442 options and accessories. All Hursts that rolled off the line as Hursts were hardtops.

The red fenderwells started in 1967 on the W30. I believe the 1966 W30 still had black stamped steel ones. You're exactly right about the black wells on the 69 clashing with the white/gold.

I believe the F,D, and H heads are the most pricey due to rarity (H being the rarest).As fas as performance, the exhaust divider between the center ports was flush with the exhaust manifold surface to take advantage of the new (for for 1969) chambered exhaust manifolds (W and Z) C's are popular because they had small combustion chambers and are relatively plentiful (all 1968 and 1969 455's except the few with D's).

The 70 W30 has always been the pinnacle of performance of these cars since it was the first (and only) one with the big high compression 455 and the big 328 rumpity-rump cam, the new ram air fiberglass hood, and the new aluminum intake. I believe a 68 H/O was a little lighter than the 70 W30 and the non A/C car would give them a good run for the money even with the smaller 308 cam.

[SmallHurst]

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Yeah, I think the guys that did the appearance package on the 69 spent too much time in the J.C Whitney catalog back then. Same ones smoked a little more rope and came up with the Rallye 350

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Hey Dave, stick this in your pipe!