Meaning of "numbrs matching" opinions please

[x Baldwin Motion]

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perhaps some of us miss the best part of the hobby being caught up in the "numbers game"...

are we hesitant to even drive and enjoy our precious investment grade muscle cars??

what if we lose the original born with block because of an over-rev or missed shift?

i guess then we have to keep a non-numbers block in the car to drive and keep the born with block stored away for safe keeping...

or maybe a camaro we can flog without remorse when we feel the need and our original born with drive train car safe at home in its environmentally stable storage facility

there will be a day when we all wish we had spent a little more time with the pedal down and a little less time crawling under cars with a flash light checking numbers.."



how true that is, the day is NOW! I could see if you were fortunate enough to have a museum with several cars or could tour the show circuit with some trailer queens, original numbers matching is nice to proclaim. I prefer to mash the gas and keep the POP matching motor and trans wrapped up in the garage. if I cant drive it without worrying what is the sense?
Life is too short. Get in and go!

Chris

[mrrec]

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Everyone keeps blaming the Corvette guys......So to point fingers at one group is ridiculous. Thanks
Rick H.

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If you're talking about me, Rick H., you're barking up the wrong tree. I didn't "blame" anyone or "point fingers" at anyone. You asked for opinions and you got mine. I stated that the NCRS guys seem to encourage restamps. Read the judging manuals. I used an example of a Corvette parts seller that told me he altered dates. Fact. Could be Camaro or Chevelle parts seller but HE told me.

Dave

[Salvatore]

I like and agree with what X11 71 71 said! NEVER had these numbers and "Do not drive" problems till the non car guys got into the mix.

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
I like and agree with what X11 71 71 said! NEVER had these numbers and "Do not drive" problems till the non car guys got into the mix.

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I disagree with that because back in the late 80's a #'s matching Z28 or SS396 was out of my price range so I couldn't buy one. Into the early 90's and the same thing, they continued to be out of my price range. Then in the late 90's I decided to make it happen and got a large loan so I could buy what I wanted to have. I've been through several loans now to get where I am with my 2 cars. So to me, #'s matching has always meant original drivetrain and combine that with a high performance car they have always commanded a premium. When the stock market tanked in 2001, everything changed and investors got into the musclecar market. I'd like to complain about the prices going up, but the good thing about the price increase is that it allowed for much better quality restorations. And today, people who have the funds, are willing to spend the money for the car they always wanted. But it's the sellers(and it's not just classic car dealers) have manipulated the term "matching number's" to sound like original equipment when it may not be original to that particular car. The only reason they do it is to inflate the price. "Matching number's" is not used to win awards at car shows, it's used to represent the car as original and increase the price/value. That's how I remember things happening but I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts and it's not really something anyone needs to argue about.

[TimG]

"Matching numbers" no longer means original engine in the buying world. Many dealers advertise "matching numbers" cars, but they certainly won't certify the engine as the original one for liability reasons. In today's world, before you get serious about a car, you need to ask;

1) Is it the original engine with the original stamps

2) Does it have the correct build derivative and matching ID number on the pad

A car could have the original engine, but the engine was decked in an earlier rebuild. The broach and numbers could be replaced on the original engine and you have the original engine with "matching numbers".

[Salvatore]

Well I guess I missed that part back in the 80's about people talking about matching numbers. Today matching numbers to me doesn't mean all original to the car. It should but it doesn't to me. It means the numbers all match each other. So I am more aware of that when I look at these cars. The words "matching numbers" can be misleading.

[Hylton]

Just drive the damn things......

[SS4Real]

Dale McIntosh's opinion as quoted on the Team Chevelle website and the best definition I have seen:

1. Engine block should be original to the car and where applicable, the engine ID and partial VIN of the car should be present and not restamped. All appropriate external equipment should be on the engine. For example, if it came with smog equipment (A.I.R.) then it should have the smog equipment especially if the engine is coded as such.
2. Heads don't have be original to the car but should be of same type and casting dates should be appropriate. Naturally it's easy if the heads are original.
3. Intake should be correct casting number and casting date.
4. Carb, distributor, exhaust manifolds should be correct casting/part numbers and casting dates.
5. Obvious items that are replaced due to wear and tear such as water pump, alternator, p/s pump, a/c compressor, plugs/wires/oil filter etc should be correct type. Rebuilt alternators are available with correct numbers and dates however.
5. Transmission and rear should be original to the car and have the correct ID and casting numbers.
6. I may differ with others on this one but the paint color(s) and interior should match what is on the Fisher Body plate as well. If the car originally was Sierra Fawn for example with tan bench seat interior and has been repainted resale red with black buckets, the car no longer matches the numbers on the body plate.

[Salvatore]

[ QUOTE ]
Just drive the damn things......

[/ QUOTE ]I like this post the best!!!

[ANDY M]

Hey Sam, you mean like this:

Just love that sound of WOT!
Nothing wrong with numbers, but they can sure hold back performance vs. originality.

The car has been slightly modified since SCR. Had to replace the cam, and get some meat on the new wheels
Can't wait till next year.