Who repro's the 70 GM Conforming door jam decal?

[Belair62]

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Why not exactly reproduce a dash VIN from a "missing" COPO and put it on another body and fake the hidden stamps?

As stated earlier "Seems that people choose what is best dependent upon their specific situation and then ridicule others for offering tags for sale or changing tags."



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VINs and rivets are a bit different than a compliance sticker...but if you don't have a problem with swapping VINS thats cool...

[njsteve]

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That doesn't make sense.

A VIN is much more specific to a car than a cowl tag.

Why not exactly reproduce a dash VIN from a "missing" COPO and put it on another body and fake the hidden stamps?

As stated earlier "Seems that people choose what is best dependent upon their specific situation and then ridicule others for offering tags for sale or changing tags."

You can't say one is OK and the other is not OK. How about we reproduce an engine stamp on a date correct block. By putting a fake door tag on another door you have done the same thing.

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It's obvious you are just arguing for the sake of argument. It's great practice for lawyers, but as we all know, the louder you argue, doesn't make you more right in your argument.

You are incorrecly comparing an actual metal VIN tag with a decal that has the vehicle identification number typed upon it. You can't alter or remove the metal VIN tag; but you can replace a damaged paper decal. I give you this example. If you wrote your car's VIN number on a piece of paper and then tore that piece of paper up have you committed no crime. If you take your metal VIN tag off of your car and cut it up, you now have a big problem.

The conformance sticker is a paper decal with an adhesive backing that notifies all that the car was built at a certain point in time to conform to certain laws applicable at the time. The decal serves NOTICE that the car was in fact, built in conformance with those laws. It is a notification decal not a registration tag or an identification tag. It is not a metal identification tag affixed to the body.

The metal VIN tag permanently affixed to the dash is an integral part of the vehicle that has specific statutory protection under Federal and State laws.

The metal cowl trim plate is essentially protected under common law fraud statutes: if you put another trim tag on your car and then give the buyer the impression that the car always had that particular trim/option combination, you have committed fraud.

The reproduction of the conformance decal for your own car, is legal.

End of lesson.

[SS427]

I also would have no trouble with replacing a cowl tag with a reprouction IF the tag was an exact reproduction and IF the original tag were retained. This sometimes has to be done due to damage to the original.
Rick

[SS427]

I deleted your posts...take it offline....

[hep1966]

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It's obvious you are just arguing for the sake of argument. It's great practice for lawyers, but as we all know, the louder you argue, doesn't make you more right in your argument.

The metal cowl trim plate is essentially protected under common law fraud statutes: if you put another trim tag on your car and then give the buyer the impression that the car always had that particular trim/option combination, you have committed fraud.

The reproduction of the conformance decal for your own car, is legal.

End of lesson.

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No argument here, hopefully just a friendly discussion.

Someone is missing or has a badly damaged cowl tag on a 1966 SS 396. They buy a real or reproduction cowl tag and put it on the car. They sell the car. Buyer finds out that the car is not factory correct. Who can be sued? The previous owner? The person who sold the real or reproduction cowl tag? The person who put the cowl tag on the car? If I remember correctly, according to your previous posts, all parties could be sued.

So someone gets a reproduction conforming sticker and puts it on their car. They sell the car and the buyer finds out that the sticker is bogus. Who gets sued? The previous owner, the maker of the sticker, or the guy who put it on the car?

[olredalert]

--------Im also thinking of this car you might buy; you go to look at a car that you have known to be delivered a certain way. You decide to buy it and then notice the trim-tag is MIA for whatever reason. Do you walk away from a COPO or an LS6 etc. because its missing that tag??? Personally I wouldnt! I probably would try to get some sort of corroborating notarized stuff to back up what the car was and then get a tag popped. As well, I would be up front upon sale of that car about the tag situation and let the chips fall. But thats just me.........Bill S

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's obvious you are just arguing for the sake of argument. It's great practice for lawyers, but as we all know, the louder you argue, doesn't make you more right in your argument.

The metal cowl trim plate is essentially protected under common law fraud statutes: if you put another trim tag on your car and then give the buyer the impression that the car always had that particular trim/option combination, you have committed fraud.

The reproduction of the conformance decal for your own car, is legal.

End of lesson.

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No argument here, hopefully just a friendly discussion.

Someone is missing or has a badly damaged cowl tag on a 1966 SS 396. They buy a real or reproduction cowl tag and put it on the car. They sell the car. Buyer finds out that the car is not factory correct. Who can be sued? The previous owner? The person who sold the real or reproduction cowl tag? The person who put the cowl tag on the car? If I remember correctly, according to your previous posts, all parties could be sued.

So someone gets a reproduction conforming sticker and puts it on their car. They sell the car and the buyer finds out that the sticker is bogus. Who gets sued? The previous owner, the maker of the sticker, or the guy who put it on the car?

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On the cowl tag: anyone with knowledge of the false information that was put on that tag could be held liable if someone else (a buyer) relied upon that false information.

If you got a repro of the exact original damaged cowl tag and put it on, no one is liable because no damage has occurred.

If you put on a repro of your original conformance decal, no one is liable because no damage has occurred.

If you swapped the metal VIN tag onto another body and had a conformance decal made up to match that newly installed VIN tag (or even carefully moved the original decal to a new body), the making and placing of the decal on the car, in and of itself is not a crime, but it will be used as further evidence of the criminal act of VIN tampering.

[Stuart Adams]

Is it beer time yet, its got to be 5:00 PM somewhere.

[hep1966]

[ QUOTE ]
On the cowl tag: anyone with knowledge of the false information that was put on that tag could be held liable if someone else (a buyer) relied upon that false information.

If you got a repro of the exact original damaged cowl tag and put it on, no one is liable because no damage has occurred.

If you put on a repro of your original conformance decal, no one is liable because no damage has occurred.

If you swapped the metal VIN tag onto another body and had a conformance decal made up to match that newly installed VIN tag (or even carefully moved the original decal to a new body), the making and placing of the decal on the car, in and of itself is not a crime, but it will be used as further evidence of the criminal act of VIN tampering.

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I agree.

[njsteve]

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--------Im also thinking of this car you might buy; you go to look at a car that you have known to be delivered a certain way. You decide to buy it and then notice the trim-tag is MIA for whatever reason. Do you walk away from a COPO or an LS6 etc. because its missing that tag??? Personally I wouldnt! I probably would try to get some sort of corroborating notarized stuff to back up what the car was and then get a tag popped. As well, I would be up front upon sale of that car about the tag situation and let the chips fall. But thats just me.........Bill S

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I once walked away from a $600 71 Trans Am that had its cowl tag and drivetrain missing just because I didn't want the stigma or rumors surrounding the car. But if you have evidence to back up how it came originally and have a repro trim tag made up and you are then upfront with the fact, there should not be a problem. For instance, if you later sold the car, I would put the whole story right on the bill of sale, in order to insulate you from some nefarious individual down the line.