replacement blocks

[GMH454]

Have seen two 454s both with three digit assembly codes, and one is in my car. Can't speak of the first it might have been from a LS6 (that was the code ) that someone forgot to stamp with the VIN, but the second was bought as a short block LS7 or LS6 from Nickey Chevrolet.

Have magazine photos showing the Nickey decal on the rear window circa 1974, know the guy who bought the engine and dropped it into the car, he is restoring it for me at the moment. the storey of the engine is documented by 1974 magazines etc. These cars were never sold with a 454 so know it did not come with the car, but has been in the car since new,
Neither block had a VIN.

Don't know what this means except that you could buy a short block with an assembly code, in 1970 & 1974.

[yountto]

You can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.........

[Schonyenko2]

I have had two people try to post the page from Yr 1 and its to big. The article is on page 121 of the 2000 nova book. It has a picture of their 68 L89 blue chevy ll on the cover. There is a picture of a stamped block that is described as being coded for a 70 full size pass car. It says note the lack of a VIN# on this block, which means this particular engine was not installed in a chassis on the assembly line.
Younto, few people have as much knowledge as you on this subject. I know that I don't. I do know enough that the block that I have has not been decked, and is stamped CTB. And apparently this gentleman from down under has one too. Schonye

[rpoz11]

I agree with Yountto's thinking here. I have pondered here a moment and I would think that legally, only the Manufacturer is allowed to ID these as they were installed at the time AND place of assembly. In no way would a dealer be allowed to re-stamp original #'s on anything. Isn't it against the Law to alter any of the original stampings? Obviously, I would think that there is a liabilty issue granted to GM, FORD, Chrysler...etc to be allowed to issue the VIN's accordingly. However, where do all these "Gang-Stamping" tools appear from anyways!??? Seems there are several people around capable of re-stamps...Thoughts here...?

[yountto]

Schonye..I think the issue here is that a block is not a CE warranty simply because of a lack of a vin..Marine applicaton stampings are known to be on the pad or by the starter starting with 1966 427s..The other problem is some publications[actually most]have editors to edit spelling not technical errors....Because its in print does not mean its true ....I can give you 3/4 reasons why you have a CTB stamp block with no vin,but none of them would lead to it being a warranty replacement...

[Keith Tedford]

As crude as it may sound, GM used a gang stamp and a big hammer to number the blocks and transmissions. The trucks were still being done this way well into the '80s. Our L78 Chevelle had the short block replaced in '71 and has the block stamped CE1XXXXX on the deck surface. These replacement assemblies also had a limited warranty and the XXXXXX number allowed GM to identify them.

[Schonyenko2]

Yountto, I'm not locked into it being a warranty block. That was the term that was used in the publication. I'd like to hear the 3-4 other options. Obviously we have something that is not very common, but please to others, please hold off on the insinuations that this is not a factory stamped application. Schonye

[Jeff H]

Let me ask this question about engines. If the engine plant says it assembled x engines coded "CTB" and Chevrolet says they built y cars that had that engine code, what would Chevrolet do with the x-y engines that were left over? They would already be assembled and stamped sitting around waiting to go into a vehicle. Would they first use those as warranty replacements or start immediately with CE replacement blocks? I would imagine that the leftover complete engines would be sold as "crate" motors since they were fully assembled vs warranty replacement especially if the engine being replaced only needed the short block. These "crate" motors would explain motors with no VIN on them.

[Mark_C]

Before this gets ugly, I interpreted your original statement that you had a "CTB stamped CE block" as being just that a warranty block with both a CE number and CTB on it. That is what brought up the restamp issue. You can't have just a block with an engine suffix code on it, it would have to be a complete engine and I stand by that observation.

I have no doubt that there were complete motors sold over the counter with a CE number and an engine assembly suffix on it. These are probably leftovers, or some small run of extras built just for spare parts. They were probably pretty rare and they are not to be confused with a CE warrantee block, or assembly. In this case a coded assembly should not have any casting dates, or assembly stamp date that extends beyond August of the model year in which the Code was used. In other words you WILL NOT find a CTB coded 70 LT1 over the counter engine that was assembled after August of 1970, as there were none made after that with that code. On the other hand a CE (warrantee replacement) block without the assembly suffix code could be dated up to the warrantee expiration date for that car, because it's just a block and or some pistons, rods and possibly a crank that GM still had service parts for, and were able to assemble for warrantee.

Anything places like Yenko, Nickey or Dana, does not fit into the general rules of engine production. They are not the "norm", as they had to get the engines they put into their cars from somewhere, so obviously it was possible to get complete engines over the counter. These engines would have casting dates before the car was built though so it should be easy to identify them. I do know that the heads have something to do with the engine suffix code, so I doubt you could get a short block with a suffix code even from them. A long block maybe, but not a short.

They are also no good in documenting a car. As I, for all intents and purposes, could have purchased a complete L89 CE engine over the counter back in 69 thru the end of the warrantee period and then put it in my small block pacecar. With a few other component changes and a CE number on the block I've got a car that is worth twice what the L48 version was worth. Doesn't mean thats what it left the factory with, at least with just a CE number you feel a little more comfortable that the block was replaced under warrantee, and not purchased over the counter.

I'd feel much more comfortable buying a car with a CE stamped block without an engine suffix, than one that did have it for that reason.

[Schonyenko2]

Ok, I see where this may have become confusing. This could have been a complete motor, but when we got it, it was an unassembled shortblock that needed bored 30 over. No heads. Not decked. My mistake in description. I recieved a pm from Yountto that also explains what this could be very well.
Still tyring to get the article edited to post. I sent it to rob.
Nothing here ever needs to get ugly. This is a site for information sharing, and learning. I've learned a great deal from this, and other sites. Sometimes we ALL just need to step back in our rush to judgement. Schonye