GMMG CAR ON EBAY

[MotownMadman]

Matt,
Nobody has ever succeeded in picking on me because my name was Matt, not after the first one I made an example out of. Just think, Johhny Cash had a boy named Sue! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[bbdon]

Regardless of the idea that the shill bidding was only driving the price up to what someone thinks is the real value of the car, shill bidding is WRONG! I cannot believe that some people seem to think that this shill bidding was OK. How can anyone trust that an auction that involves any of these people is fair? They cant. Only a fool would bid now, or do any future business with those involved.

[Chevy454]

So let me get this straight...

"Kratchmer" made the original post from Carnahan's computer, yet Carnahan (kamaroking) allegedly didn't know what was happening. So, Murphy plays along and builds up the car and provides contact info, to which "Kratchmer" replies back, still playing the part of "interested party". He evens states he "has bid on it". He's right about that, as he bid on it 2 days ago (12-9-2003). A quick check on Ebay reveals that one other person has bid, that being "hugger66", which is Matt Murphy.
So, you've got an employee of GMMG selling a car, the owner of GMMG bidding on it, and a "friend" of BOTH parties also bidding on it. Does this look like the workings of a legitimate auction? What if an innocent and LEGITIMATE party had placed a bid? Would they have quit bidding, seeing as the auction is (and has been for some time) out of there respective price ranges? Is this standard practice for ALL GMMG cars that "sell" on Ebay? Is shill bidding now "acceptable"?

I guess all of this just strikes me as "funny". Just a few short days ago Carnahan basically "thumbed his nose" at this site and it's admin/moderators. His first posts on this site were an attack on another member who had concerns about a car HIS company built, followed by an off-hand remark about filling out his profile. All my offline efforts yielded was me hearing about how "he knew he was right" and how he cares "more about the truth and the cars", or how he'd "built over 700 cars" and wanted "off the site" and would "never post again". But, when it comes to selling his car, guess which site he/they choose(s)? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't LS1Tech or LS1.com....

[Charley Lillard]

Hey wait a minute...I'm the current high bidder....BBDON..I see Matts bid as a bid that he is willing to pay. The same thing for the other Guy. I have Bid on it and I will pay that much for it but I don't consider it a shill bid. I think it is a Cool car for the price. I am kinda suprised that it has not been bought. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif[/img]

[hvychev]

This whole situation stinks......... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

[bbdon]

"I thought I would help Mike's Ebay ad out by making the first offer"
That's shill bidding. I don't see how anyone could have any other interpretation of it.

[matt murphy]

BBDON, fill out your profile and give at least me your name so I know who I am talking to. Explain shill bidding and is that in the dictionary ?? WHY is it illegal for a friend to make a bid on a car that someone wanted to put on Ebay ?? If I placed a standing offer for $16,500, what in this world of SYC is wrong with that ?? Come on, what are you so upset about ?? It is an awesome car for the price, and you have to keep using this site to ridicule someone instead of helping someone understand what they might have done wrong in your mind. Please copy me here on the Ebay rules about Shill bidding, so I can see what I and or Mike Kratchmer did wrong. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

[MotownMadman]

Matt,
As a Ebay power seller I may be able to explain. Shill bidding is if you have an item on Ebay for auction and you notify and use friends and associates to bid on the car to increase the price. Even if the associates bids stay below the reserve they still create the appearence of multiple parties being interested in the car, which can cause two different situations. Your actual bidder may fear losing the car due to a great deal of interest and therefore step up to the buy it now or make a high offer to presuade the seller to end the auction outright. The other effect it can have is creating a competetive frenzy which could cause people to bid more then they intended to pay or what they can afford. It is against Ebay rules and the seller can be suspended from Ebay on atemporairy or permanent basis, depending on how serious the situation or past similar actions. The best way to use Ebay is in an completely honest manner, certainly with high ticket items, as your future ability to sell is based on your past transactions and the honesty in which they were conducted. If you have friends or employees who had an interest in the car a deal should have been struck privatly prior to ebay. Your one associate made a post here in a manner that he was asking about the car, well, if he knows the car why ask? I would guess that gave you an opportunity to respond on this board with all the details without looking like a hard sell by advertising it without anyone expressing an interest. In the business you are in you cant afford bad rap, certainly not over a test car which is not where your bread and butter is. Just some food for thought.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[matt murphy]

Rob,

Mike Kratchmer made the first post from his computer at home this morning. He called Carnahan and told him what he did, while he was at work, away from home. Carnahan was not happy with the post so Carnahan called Kratchmer back and said to change it and Kratchmer said he couldn't until later, so he gave Carnahan his SYC password and Carnahan went in and edited Kratchmers post, while I was reading it for the first time.

(So, you've got an employee of GMMG selling a car, the owner of GMMG bidding on it, and a "friend" of BOTH parties also bidding on it.)

Please show me where in the Ebay rules that an owner of a company is not allowed to place a bid on an employees car ?? If I want that car I have to pass on it because he is an employee or for Kratchmer a friend ??

(Is this standard practice for ALL GMMG cars that "sell" on Ebay? Is shill bidding now "acceptable"?)

Today is the first time I have ever heard of Shill Bidding, and if the word Shill Bidding has been mentioned by people on this site before then obviously it has happened before, and GMMG cars are not the first time it has happened. If you know anyone who was not happy with the price they paid for their GMMG car, then please introduce them to me.

And for those that think GMMG is here racking in the BIG BUCKS on these cars, then you have not followed any of the GMMG cars for sale. Other than this car, what GMMG car have you or anyone seen on Ebay or anywhere for sale by anyone from GMMG ?? Mike has been offered BIG BUCKS for his "Grumpy's Toy" ZL1 Supercar #69, but it is not on Ebay or some auction or web site for sale. Privately for sale, maybe, but like all ZL1 owners, they have the option to sell their cars.

If people are not familiar with how GMMG cars are sold then here is an example. We sell a package to the dealers (ie, Intimidator SS, or Berger SS, or ZL1 Supercar), they have a standard markup, which we set for them to prevent different MSRP prices; which is usually twice the standard markup of a Chevy option. Dealers love it because they sell most of our cars for MSRP. They make a great profit on these cars. GMAC loves it because they finance BIG dollars on these cars. GM Performance parts love it because we primarily use their parts before an aftermarket one. The Camaro Brand team loves it because these cars bring excitement to the dealership level. Then, the customers buy the cars, and are happy with their purchase, I assume, or they wouldn't have purchased their car. A lot of these customers are buyers and sellers and SYC members of this board, and they like the fact that they can buy a car and sell it for a significant profit. I can think of 12 or more ZL1's that have sold for well over 100K, and that is in most cases probably 20K more than the original buyer paid for their cars. You think that that hasn't bothered a few of my employees that see that, when we built them and only made the original few thousand from the dealer. It is getting tougher each day for me to explain to my employees, that we need to let them make the profit so they come back to do it again. There are a lot of people trying to get in on the money making opportunities that we have made for them.

If we wanted to make money on this car, I could have very easily succomed to the money making opportunity here and put a 427 C5R motor in it and listed that car as the One and Only ZL1 pilot test vehicle used to create the ZL1 / GMMG Phase 3 upgrade package, and with my letter of authenticity, we could pull it off and ask in the neighborhood of the 427 ZL1 cars. NO, I told Mike that we are not going to do that. I think that stands for Integrity and I have seen the opposite done before by people all around the industry.

(His first posts on this site were an attack on another member who had concerns about a car HIS company built)

GRB mentioned that he was having problems with his GMMG modified ZL1 rear end. That was not true, he added a 12 Bolt aftermarket rear end and tried to put the rear brake brackets on it that we put on the original rear end. He admitted that he forgot to mention that small point, that it was NOT the original GMMG modified rear end, but one that he and LWA added.

(But, when it comes to selling his car, guess which site he/they choose(s)? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't LS1Tech or LS1.com....)

OK, if it hasn't hit you guys here, but these GMMG cars are being bought by members of this site and not the LS1TECH or LS1.com web sites, Why, because those guys and sites are directed at people that are interested in doing the modifications to their cars by themselfs. Also, they are of the age that can not afford these high priced cars that we purposely built for the high end collectors, like the members of this site. And lastly, the statement on the front page of the SYC states that this site is for Dealer Built Musclecars, which happens to be where our cars have fallen into, not the sites of LS1TECH or LS1.COM that cater to the individual that modifies his own car, and the aftermarket parts they use on their cars.

I don't see why you would make a post that would come off pretty hard towards a company that has probably 30 or more members here that own our cars as well as the Supercars of yesterday. Hurting GMMG hurts their investment, and that is why I stick up for GMMG and whatever we do, be it right or wrong, people make mistakes, and so far all my people have appologised here for their wrong doings.

You can expect that tomorrow you and a few others here will get a private message from both Carnahan and Kratchmer appologising for what they have stated here. I'm sorry they have made mistakes here on this site and for that I asked them to stay on their web sites and I will moniter this one to help those members here that might need my help.

I told you guys that I firmly believe in this web site, and if some people do not have the same beliefs as I do, it will not affect me one bit. I do not believe in bashing people here or anywhere. If you guys see something wrong with someones post then I would expect a professional way of dealing with it, from a site that has the clientel that expect it. publically bashing individuals here no matter who they are, only causes people to loose faith in what this site stands for. I understand now all of your concerns for Shilling Bids, but I assure you, that we never made any such bids that we did not fully intend to live up to.

[MotownMadman]

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/shillbidding.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/shillBidding.html

Matt,
The above links will explain in detail about shill bidding using friends, relatives or associates. Hope this helps for the info you wanted. Any more Ebay concerns let me know I will be glad to help out.
Thanks,
MotownMadmanMatt [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]