2002 ZL1 Camaro's

[mhassett]

Right on Yenko Bart--I was at GM Carlisle and when Moss drove his ZL-1 to the grand stand area the whole crowd just stopped and looked and LISTENED!! If Chevy could build that car I would be FIRST on the List!!!
Mark

[DjD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>So, what's the difference between the LS-6 in the new ZL-1 Camaros and the LS-6 engines that all of the other V-8 Camaros got standard (from '01-'02?)? Just a lid and the chambered exhaust?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'98 - '02 Camaros have LS-1 engines in them... The ls-6 does come in the vette though...

[Chevy454]

Yeah, I realize the Camaros got the LS-1 (starting in '98), but they got the "updated" version of the LS-1, which was the LS-6 (new, heads, cam, & intake, and new beefier block to handle higher revs due to better flowing top end) in 2001, I believe...just curious how they arrived at 400hp/410tq...would just a lid and chambered exhaust bump it up that high?

[Edited by Chevy454 (04-14-2002 at 11:20 PM).]

[JoeC]

From what I can tell on the web sites, the 405 hp LS6 engine is only available in the 2002 Corvette ZO6. It is an extensively modified LS1 with new heads, cam, FI parts, etc. The non ZO6 Corvette has a 350hp LS1, and the SS Camaro has a 325hp LS1. The 2002 ZL1 Camaro web site claims it has a 400 hp LS6. They do not say if it is an engine transplant or if they upgrade the original LS1 engine to LS6 spec. The 2002 ZO6 is a quick car running mid 12s off the showroom floor. With a few modifications there are ZO6 owners running 11s with daily driven street cars. This Gen III motor was designed for serious hp potential. There are rumors about Chevy making a LS7 version with 420hp. The C5-R Corvette endurance race car uses a modified LS1 bored and stroked to 427 cu in and makes over 620 hp. You can buy a street version of the 427 LS1 that makes 585 hp. What I was saying is this 2002 ZL1 Camaro should be called a LS6 Camaro (it has a LS6 engine) and a modern ZL1 should use the 585 hp 427 cu in LS1. It is all too confusing with the new and old engines using the same number/letter codes. I think a 585 hp 427 LS1 2002 Camaro would do justice to the ZL1 name and would allow Chevy to showcase the GEN III motor while giving a memorable send off to the Camaro name. IMO

[Charley Lillard]

The ZO6 engine only comes in ZO6 Vettes. The current ZO6 is 405 hp. The Camaro we are talking about gets that ZO6 engine transplanted into it with the approval of Chevrolet. You still get the full Factory Warranty. If you send your car to Lingenfelter you have his warranty but you no longer have the Chevrolet Warranty. Which one appears more like a Factory built car to you ? But if you go to the Stage 2 470 hp option, the warranty goes away. As far as I know, these will be the only Camaros built with Corvette ZO6 engines put in them with Chevrolet's blessings. It is still up in the air as to if it gets to use the ZL1 emblems. The orig. cars never had ZL1 emblems on them either.

[matt murphy]

Guys,
I have enjoyed your comments and appreciate your thoughts. My first comment is this car is not a '69 Camaro playing with 1969 emission standards. Today Federal Emissions will make or brake a vehicle. In order for Chevy to consider this car it had to pass all Federal Emission Recertification tests. This car was a concept that I came up with in the summer of 2000 and it wasn't until Chevy got a call from Ford, asking them what they had to compete with their new Mustang Cobra R (385hp 2001 Mustang $56,000.00). Chevy answered, "Well we are working on a Camaro with 400hp", the other line I was told was very quiet. That was around 10:30pm on a Sunday night. At 10:40pm that night I got a call from the Camaro Assistant Brand Manager telling me to get up here to Detroit, we are going to build that Camaro you were talking about. I picked up the car and a 2002 preproduction LS6 Corvette motor from the GM Proving Grounds. We put them together and added the rest of the items we use on our other cars (see them at www.gmmginc.net), like our Chambered Exhaust among 50 other things and came up with a 400HP package. Remember, at Chevy the Corvette is King and if you want to kill a project Camaro, just give it more HP, but if you want to keep it alive, rate it 5hp less. The base 2001 Camaro SS on the chassis dyno made 298hp at the rear wheels, that is roughly 345hp at the flywheel (although factory rated 325hp). With the 2002 LS6 motor we got from GM and our 50 or so parts, it brought the hp at the rear wheels to 372hp and 360tq, that is 431hp at the flywheel and 417tq. Remember, this is all with a Federal Emission Legal Recertified Motor and Package. Not a Lingenfelter or vintage big block that would both fail the test miserably. Also, you are speaking about a modified big block and ZL1 motor. Remember what they did stock. GM got our Pilot (internal GM name for a production type prototype) Garnet Red ZL1 last April and took it to the GM Proving Grounds and ran a weeks worth of tests and called me and told me that they would print 0-60 in 4.06 sec. and 1/4 mile in 12.5 @ 114mph. That was with stock tires, exh manifolds and cats, etc. Lastly, I am a huge Camaro enthusiast and collector and would do nothing to deface the ZL1 legend; but, those numbers and 430hp are very reminiscent of only one Factory Camaro in the past 35 years and that is how
we came up with the name for this project Camaro. To be fair, please do not compare this car to a modified big block or we will have to modify ours and you do not want to go there, just kidding or maybe not. Take it from here Charlie and Kevin. I will be back later

Thanks for your efforts Matt. If you would have not been involved, we would only have a 35th anniversary camaro to choose from. Can you explain the stage 2 package. Does it include headers or line-lock? What is the stage 2 actual dyno test? When will delivery of cars start. Thanks Matt. Dave Belk

[COPO PETE]

Thanks for stopping by Matt! I applaud your intentions and I think what your doing is great. I'm glad someone is going out of the way to try and keep the Camaro legend alive, that's what were all doing here! Some may not agree but I think the name LS-6 Camaro is more fitting, especially since one was never built, and many thought it should have in 1970. Reguardless of the name, the car will stand on it's own if it's a good as you say it is, and it does sound great. Interested in a 69 ZL-1 vs 2002 LS-6/ZL-1 shootout for advertising????
Peter
PS. Now when you bring out the 69 look alike in a few years like Ford did with the T-bird, then you can drop in that aluminum ZL-1 block and have a party!!!! And actually call it ZL-1 Camaro!!!!!

[Edited by COPO PETE (04-16-2002 at 09:18 AM).]

[JoeC]

Welcome to the site Matt. It is good that you are building the LS6 Camaro. I don't mean to sound too negative, but you should have called it a LS6 Camaro. A modern ZL1 Camaro should have at least 500hp. This is not unreasonable with today's technology. The Viper has 450hp, Ferrari has 508hp, the new Ford GT40 has 500hp. Chevy has the engine to compete - It is the LS1 427 C5-R motor. It should be able to be built with 500hp and be fully emission legal. Katech already sells a 585 hp LS1 street motor. Now call Chevy and demand a 500hp 427 LS1 for your ZL1 Camaro. While you have them on the phone tell them they need a ZL1 Corvette to. All they have to do is write a check to a vendor like Katech and they can get the motors built. It just takes somebody at Chevy with big enough round things to do it. The last F-Body deserves a good send off.

[Chevy454]

First off, GREAT TO HAVE YOU ABOARD, MATT! I'm a little split on who has my dream job: you or Jon Moss ! I had to go over to LS-1.com to find answers to some questions I inquired about earlier...I thought the '01-2 LS-1's shared more than just the block with the LS-6 (I was thinking head and intake for some reason), but they got me headed in the right direction. [For those interested, the LS-6, the powerplant of choice in the ZO6, features different heads, cam, intake, & injectors. Chime in here, Matt, if this is wrong!] Oh, a quick question: I think I read somewhere that since the F-bodies are leaving for a while, that SLP is going to move over into the Corvettes, and even into sport utes and possibly some other models. Is GMMG gonna try doing anything on any other platforms?

Pete:

I hate to even post this, but I was thinking the EXACT same thing, with one exception: the part where you mention about the '69 look alike car. T-bird? I probably would have went with GT-40, which is going to look AWESOME, but I'm not all that impressed with the T-bird. But, I did agree with the name thing...it's got an LS-6 in it, and the Camaro has deserved the LS-6 since '70, so why not call it an LS-6? Then, convince GM to build that monster ZL-1 that Moss built (with the aluminum Donnavan!), and there's your ZL-1.

Oh, let me know when/where this '69 vs. '02 ZL-1 shootout is gonna take place! Let's see...when I last left Pete (at the Pure Stock Drags in Michigan) his ZL-1 had just finished up his "Certified Stock" inspection and was running 12.30s on Polyglass tires...the new ZL-1 is running 12.50s...ought to be close!!!!

[Edited by Chevy454 (04-16-2002 at 10:31 AM).]