Motion Nova????

[motionwannabe]

Well after looking back in emails Dans "maybe" letter is from April 2003 i dont have a copy of it or Id post it. At one point Dan talked with Stanley Noren a former Motion mechanic and he remembered the 68 nova and is owner Freddy Calas quite well. I can not nor will I be the responsibe party for saying its real or not. However seems kinda sad if it is fake that Dans wasting time on it dont ya think? Hes gone under alot of speculation and been banned from several site over his desire to elieve this car is indeed real . Only Joel Rosen knows the truth. Id like this issue to be put to bed one way or another

[motionwannabe]

Why dont a few of the Motion gurus put their differences aside with Dan for the sake of the hobby and better understanding of Motion vehicles and for everyones knowledge and help find out the truth. It would benefit all of us that are Motion fans and would lay waste to any doubt of the car moving forward. Im just saying!

[Charley Lillard]

We have not said it is fake and that is not why he is not here. "Only Joel Rosen knows the truth" ? Joel obviously does not know and has said so. Unless Dan comes up with some kind of paperwork it will continue to be a "maybe" car. I don't think anyone's differences with Dan have anything to do with the fact that there is no documentation on the car.

[motionwannabe]

Charley, Im not saying anyone here per se is calling it a fake but the overall community consenus is that because lacking paperwork its a fake. In my eyes, given I had the money to buy it with the 427 , I'd beat the hell out of it!!! Just because of the aggrevation and ridicule from others (Syc excluded)that it caused one man. This car as it sits is worth no more than it was new. Sadly, maybe someone out there knows the truth. Maybe a builder or a buyer knows more about this particular car than Dan does. His price seems ok if its real. I would beat it like a running mule!!!!!! Then everyone would say " Oh My God why are you doing that" This is a double edged sword that has cut Dan and made him look bad. My approach is, If anyone out there knows beyond a reasonable doubt that this car is INDEED a fake speak up with the proof. If not ,forever hold your piece and let the man sell his car!! A 68 Nova is an awesome car!! An SS 427 68 Nova is one hell of a ride!! Help him figure it out one way or another! I know of a few collectors that had to take legal action against Joel to prove the provenance of their Motion cars. Should Dan go that route???? Lets hope not.I don't give a rats a$$ if its real or not but when provenance keeps a "Car Guy" from enjoying his car, What is this hobby really worth?? To all MOTION Super Car Gurus and Joel and anyone that may know, Lets put this to bed!!! Its gone on for far too long turned a car guy into a bad guy ( I applaud Dan for standing up for what he believes , Right , Wrong or Indifferent) Its time to either kill the Unicorn for being fake or prove to the world its real. Why is it that people have to fight about this?? If he's wrong prove him so. If hes right help him document it. I absolutely hate how the Car Community can treat a person. Me, my wife and our committee hold a Car Cruise every year to help a family. My son had a stroke at birth and almost died. I try to help a family going through a hardship like we went through and let me tell you some of the people in this hobby are greedy, self indulging worms. They would rather point fingers and say whats wrong with one another cars than help each other and let the knowledge flourish. I hope before my son is old enough to truely appreciate cars this attitude changes. If not, Ill have him follow Joel Rosen and appreciate plastic model airplanes and Naval ships. Maybe he would be better off in the Mini Bike community where theres less staring down ones nose at someone and everyone appreciates each other. Nevertheless, how can anyone question Dan unless they have the hard cold proof his car is BS??? He does however have a "Maybe" letter but thats worth no more than the paper its printed or the information contained therein or maybe the signature at the bottom. Just my 2 cents.

[Charley Lillard]

Dan has a car with no paperwork or proof so what is there to prove ? You want someone to prove it is a fake ? The community is keeping him from enjoying his car ? How ? He can build it and enjoy it as is but instead he has been trying to unload it. We have to certify his car why ? So he can unload it for more ? I'm glad he found it and maybe some day some paperwork will pop up but until it does I don't see why you feel the community needs to jump thru hoops trying to find a needle in a haystack to help Dan sell his car. Has he gotten Notarized letters from anyone that says they remember the car ? Anything like that ? We don't know because he is misleading in his ad. He says in his ad he has a letter from Joel. That infers it is documented by Joel but apparently it is a maybe letter. Don't you think that was misleading in his ad ? You want us to jump thru hoops for someone that is purposefully misleading us in his ad ? I'm sure Dan has done more research and turned over more rocks looking for proof than most of us could. I think if any of us had info that would shed light on his car we would be glad to help. Anyone else with different motives but had proof would have already bought it from Dan. Make sense ?

[motionwannabe]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan has a car with no paperwork or proof so what is there to prove ? You want someone to prove it is a fake ? The community is keeping him from enjoying his car ? How ? He can build it and enjoy it as is but instead he has been trying to unload it. We have to certify his car why ? So he can unload it for more ? I'm glad he found it and maybe some day some paperwork will pop up but until it does I don't see why you feel the community needs to jump thru hoops trying to find a needle in a haystack to help Dan sell his car. Has he gotten Notarized letters from anyone that says they remember the car ? Anything like that ? We don't know because he is misleading in his ad. He says in his ad he has a letter from Joel. That infers it is documented by Joel but apparently it is a maybe letter. Don't you think that was misleading in his ad ? You want us to jump thru hoops for someone that is purposefully misleading us in his ad ? I'm sure Dan has done more research and turned over more rocks looking for proof than most of us could. I think if any of us had info that would shed light on his car we would be glad to help. Anyone else with different motives but had proof would have already bought it from Dan. Make sense ? </div></div>
Charley, I agree with what you are saying and it makes sense. I didnt mean to make it sound like I think people should jump through hoops for Dan. All I'm trying to say is, I don't understand why, but Dan has stood behind this car under mass scrutiny for some reason. He has taken more verbal abuse than anyone else over a car that may be or may not be real. He sent me an email of the letter from Joel and it is vague at best. His ad is misleading and does imply that he has a letter of documentation and would most definitely lead someone to think that Joel gave it his blessing, when in fact he basically said &quot;I do not know&quot;. Theres a bunch of other drama over this car reguarding phone calls from collectors,so on and so forth that Dan has gone through. All I'm trying to say is for the cars sake it would be nice to have this all put to bed. It has gone on for so long. Dan says he has an NICB report for the car. I never looked at that. I'm not trying to make anyone mad nor do I want to be in the middle of some crazed dispute like in the past. I would just like to know what the car is or isn't and if someone buys it I hope they try to figure it out. As far as what I said about &quot;keeping Dan from enjoying his car&quot; what I meant was all the scrutiny and &quot;fog&quot; around it when he brings it up, How could anyone enjoy it with so much drama.If I were him, and the car was in fact beyond a shadow of a doubt real, theres no way after all the bs I could enjoy it. Does that make sense?? Maybe Dan should put it together and give it a good beating just because. Maybe, If Dan wants to, he can send one of us a pic of his letter from Joel (both pages) and we could post if for everyone to see. For me, I couldn't care how much money he gets out of that car one way or another and I'm not asking anyone to help him for monetary gain. All I meant was just to prove one way or another what the car is. I do agree if the provenance was there this car would be in someone elses collection.

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dan says he has an NICB report for the car. .
</div></div>


seriously, like the letter?

well...... is the car from Baldwin or not? (that shouldn't be a vague answer)


I feel bad for this car owner if he has a real car but no pictures, no docs, not a shred of evidence that this is the only known 68 1/2 BM Nova, and he has had it for several years and it has been talked about for nearly as long, yet nobody knows about a bit of its history.

[enio45]

A few bits of info below that i have received in the last 30 days about the car.

NICB report back in 2002 says dealer 39327 (pic of the letter is a little fuzzy) but i believe this is correct or very close - and it seems from the email that kevin sudan did the nicb on the car and sent it to dan.

So the question is - is dealer 39327 Baldwin or a local dealer in the area?

Dan does have a good amount of data that strongly supports that it &quot;could be&quot; the car...i believe that data needs to be well organised, authenticated and re-presented to Joel - remember, alot of additional research he did was after the Joel letter in 2003 - which says it is a maybe car - and Joel has no documention in his files to support anything else other than - maybe it is, but he does not have any data to certify it is, period!

It would be good if a group of serious motion experts from the hobby could help, relooking at the data he has and compiling it accordingly to either put the car in the pedigree it deserves or NOT.

[PeteLeathersac]

Baldwin Chevy NY was Zone # 27, Dealer # 19.
Zone # 39 was usually dealers in S/W States like Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico etc.

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]
~ Pete

[enio45]

not sure what you provided to what i have available ..ill confirm the info to be sure im reading the copy of the letter correctly