"BE" axle info

[69L72RS]

Albert
The E27J on your carrier is the correct code and the date spread is within range, about a month apart. Your carrier casting date is probably 70 to 100 range, I'm guessing. On some of the later cars, the posi date to axle dates were a little further apart than during the high production months. Compare you unit to the pics that Casey will be posting and the id characteristics in my next post. I wouldn't worry about the green springs until you check the other features. It may have been rebuilt in the past. I will put the date data I my next post.
The ring gear is a standard 4.10 with a 3862514 pinion.
What is the casting date on the housing?
Hope this helps.
Eric

[69L72RS]

Info reposted from other post:
Also here are a few notes on the looking at a #234 posi:

1) springs - natural color / lefthand wind / 0.120" wire diameter / 75# rating

2) spring plates - narrower and longer than standard plates / round hole for c-clip
* note: early standard posi units also had round holes for c-clips but are too wide for copo unit *

3) axle gears - 16 teeth / tooth root goes all the way to clutch surface / gear OD has pointed tooth tips / the unit usually has 7 teeth visible
* Don't get cofused by GM 2nd design 17 tooth axle gears. They appear very similar when inside the posi. *
* They don't have a flange by the clutches either. *

4) I have found (4) older rebuilt COPO posi units with stock 10-18 & 10-17 tooth spiders sets in them. There will be 3 cup washers behind the smaller pinion gears to get the proper mesh. The case is correct but the guts are wrong.

5) the COPO posi case is cast # EDB 30174 ( same as standard unit) and has different internal machined dimensions to fit the larger gears. All COPO units that I have seen were small window cases.

6) The posi unit assembly date can be stamped on the ring gear flange or on the balancing boss. It will be a letter+number+letter stamp. Ever COPO posi carrier that I have seen has had a "J" code. Take note I have seen several other non COPO units, 3 and 4 series, with the "J" code.
It is not a guaranty that a unit is a #234 carrier, unless it has the correct inside dimensions.

Sorry but I couldn't get the database to cut and paste here.
Does it have to be any specific format?
I'll try to save it as something else and paste it again later.
Thanks again.
Eric

[Casey Marks]

Here are the pictures of the internals of the *BE* that Eric forwarded to me to shrink and post. This is the FIRST time that I have actually seen proof of the difference. THANKS ERIC !!

Internal Shot


Spring Plates


Side Gear


Side and Spider Gears


Compare those to the pictures that I had posted of the current 4-series *174* posi guts.


The thicker spring plate is from the 800# spring kit. The thin plate is from a standard 4-series - - vintage 1968.



These above are springs from that same '68 vintage 4-series. I've got the 800# springs, and will have to take a picture of them so that you can see the difference.

I am also doing some investigating to see if we can determine who the engineer(s) are that have their initials on the print that Eric references. Nothing yet ...... I'm also working on what the Eaton part numbers are for the individual components that Eric's pictures document, to see if they are still "in the system".

Yep - it looks like I was wrong. Now we just have to find out if there is anything else we can do besides beg and plead with the guys that are hording 'em now ........

I'm trying right now to cross-reference the below GM part numbers to Eaton numbers. We'll see ........

<font color="blue">3916234 Complete assembly
3918834 Spring Plate - heat treated
3957939 Spring 75lb. each (natural color)
3880140 Spider Gear (larger size)
3918831 Side (Axle) gear (16 teeth) </font>

[69L72RS]

Thanks for posting the pics Casey.
Here is the database.
COPO “BE” REAREND DATABASE:

HOUSING-------------POSI UNIT-------------R &amp; P------------------CAR
CAST/ASSY----------CAST/ASSY------------PT# / DATE----------BUILD
A39 / BE 0117G2-----158 / A10J (flange)----226-228 / 11-68--------n/a
B189 / BE 0226G1----??? / B3J----------------516-528 / 72------------03B
B79 / BE 0305G2-----171 / B8J (flange)------Richmond 4.10---------n/a
B69 / BE 0312G2-----201 / B22J (flange)----Richmond 4.56---------03D
B269 / BE 0317G1----??? / C3J----------------226-228 / 2-69 ---------03D
C319 / BE 0403G1----237 / C19J(flange)---- 516-528 / 75------------n/a
D89 / BE 0416G1-----??? / C22J(flange)---- 515-527 / 9-69---------n/a
D19 / BE 0417G1-----??? / ???-----------------226-228 / 3-69 ---------04C
??? / BE 042?G?------44 / D10J (flange)-----226-228 / ?-69 ---------?
D79 / BE 0424G2-----44 / D14J (flange)-----226-228 / 4-69 ---------05A
C199 / BE 0501G1----44 / D22J (boss)-------5.38 Zoom gear---------n/a
D?9 / BE 0505G2------45 / D22J (boss)------226-228 / 4-69 ---------05C
D239 / BE 0506G1----18 / E2J ( flange)------515-527 / 6-66 ---------n/a
D299 / BE 0519G1----?? / E10J (flange)-----226-228 / 5-69 ---------05D
E59 / BE 0520G1------?? / E9J (flange)-------226-228 / 5-69 ---------05D
F209 / BE 0708G------?? / F4J (flange)-------514-526 / 3-69 ---------09A

CARRIERS ONLY:
??? / ???-----------------351 / B19J (flange)---226-228 / 2-69
??? / ??? ----------------101 / F10J (boss)
??? / ??? ----------------101 / F10J (flange)


Sorry about the dashes, I had to use them to line up the columns.
Also don't panic if your assembly date matches one in the list but doesn't have the same casting date. I have seen casting dates float by up to two months. Carrier to assembly dates can be 2 days to over a month apart.
I will fill in some of the "?" as soon as the car owners get back to me.

I have seen 3 reworked rears that were cast 4 to 6 months before the assembly dates. All 3 had rework designation stamps on the castings.

I hope this info helps those who are looking to find an appropriately dated rear for their cars. I will try to get time tonight to post additional date and code info.

On a different note, does anyone live near Ogdensburg, NY?
I might be paying a visit to the Ansen Group factory on the river. I have yet to find anything to do while there. If anyone knows of any sites worth visiting in the area, let me know please.

Later,
Eric

[Chevy454]

Here is Eric's chart in a more "viewer friendly" format...

<body><table border="1" width="94%"><tr><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="3">HOUSING:</td><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="2">POSI UNIT:</td><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="2">R &amp; P:</td><td width="16%" align="center">CAR:</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2"><u>CAST</u></td><td width="12%" align="center"><u>ASSY</u></td><td width="11%" align="center"><u>CAST</u></td><td width="14%" align="center"><u>ASSY</u></td><td width="13%" align="center"><u>PT# </u></td><td width="12%" align="center"><u>DATE</u></td><td width="16%" align="center"><u>BUILD DATE</u></td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">A39</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0117G2</td><td width="11%" align="center">158</td><td width="14%" align="center">A10J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">11-68</td><td width="16%" align="center">n/a</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">B189</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0226G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">???</td><td width="14%" align="center">B3J</td><td width="13%" align="center">516-528</td><td width="12%" align="center">72</td><td width="16%" align="center">03B</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">B79</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0305G2</td><td width="11%" align="center">171</td><td width="14%" align="center">B8J (flange)</td><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="2">Richmond 4.10</td><td width="16%" align="center">n/a</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">B69</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0312G2</td><td width="11%" align="center">201</td><td width="14%" align="center">B22J (flange)</td><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="2">Richmond 4.56</td><td width="16%" align="center">03D</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">B269</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0317G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">???</td><td width="14%" align="center">C3J</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">2-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">03D</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">C319</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0403G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">237</td><td width="14%" align="center">C19J(flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">516-528</td><td width="12%" align="center">75</td><td width="16%" align="center">n/a</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">D89</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0416G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">???</td><td width="14%" align="center">C22J(flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">515-527</td><td width="12%" align="center">9-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">n/a</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">D19</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0417G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">???</td><td width="14%" align="center">???</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">3-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">04C</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">???</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 042?G?</td><td width="11%" align="center">44</td><td width="14%" align="center">D10J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">?-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">?</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">D79</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0424G2</td><td width="11%" align="center">44</td><td width="14%" align="center">D14J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">4-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">05A</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">C199</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0501G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">44</td><td width="14%" align="center">D22J (boss)</td><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="2">5.38 Zoom gear</td><td width="16%" align="center">n/a</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">D?9</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0505G2</td><td width="11%" align="center">45</td><td width="14%" align="center">D22J (boss)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">4-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">05C</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">D239</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0506G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">18</td><td width="14%" align="center">E2J ( flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">515-527</td><td width="12%" align="center">6-66</td><td width="16%" align="center">n/a</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">D299</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0519G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">???</td><td width="14%" align="center">E10J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">5-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">05D</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">E59</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0520G1</td><td width="11%" align="center">???</td><td width="14%" align="center">E9J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">5-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">05D</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2">F209</td><td width="12%" align="center">BE 0708G</td><td width="11%" align="center">??</td><td width="14%" align="center">F4J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">514-526</td><td width="12%" align="center">3-69</td><td width="16%" align="center">09A</td></tr><tr><td width="13%" align="center" colspan="2"></td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="11%" align="center"></td><td width="14%" align="center"></td><td width="13%" align="center"></td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="16%" align="center"></td></tr><tr><td width="25%" align="center" colspan="3"><u>CARRIERS ONLY:</u></td><td width="11%" align="center"></td><td width="14%" align="center"></td><td width="13%" align="center"></td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="16%" align="center"></td></tr><tr><td width="7%" align="center">???</td><td width="6%" align="center">???</td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="11%" align="center">351</td><td width="14%" align="center">B19J (flange)</td><td width="13%" align="center">226-228</td><td width="12%" align="center">2-69</td><td width="16%" align="center"></td></tr><tr><td width="7%" align="center">???</td><td width="6%" align="center">???</td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="11%" align="center"></td><td width="14%" align="center"></td><td width="13%" align="center">101</td><td width="12%" align="center">F10J (boss)</td><td width="16%" align="center"></td></tr><tr><td width="7%" align="center">???</td><td width="6%" align="center">???</td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="11%" align="center"></td><td width="14%" align="center"></td><td width="13%" align="center">101</td><td width="12%" align="center">F10J (flange)</td><td width="16%" align="center"></td></tr><tr><td width="7%" align="center"></td><td width="6%" align="center"></td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="11%" align="center"></td><td width="14%" align="center"></td><td width="13%" align="center"></td><td width="12%" align="center"></td><td width="16%" align="center"></td></tr></table>


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[69L72RS]

Thanks for straightening that chart out for me Rob. It looks a whole lot better.
What software did you use?
I did get a photo editor today and will try get some pics to go along with the next info post.

[Chevy454]

I just coded it in HTML...

[Alss]

Eric, here is some more info about my rear. KQ 0624 with a cast date of F-2-9 and a carrier assembly date of E27J and a cast date of 108. Car built 07C.The original ring and pinion are gone The side gears I don't think aer original as they have a shoulder against the clutch discs , idler gears and springs ( thanks for the pictures)are also missing. I do still have the thick spring plates. Can I use standard parts in the housing?...or do I need another carrier? RIng and pinion are in nice shape and I may reuse them, but I need to rebuild the carrier..clutch plates etc. Thanks.

ALbert

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
Ring gear 2 GM 3862526 10 41 4 69.

[/ QUOTE ] I believe they should be #226 in a copo .. #526 is regular 410 non heat treated.

[PaulK]

How about the pinion P/N for copo, is it different than the "standard" 4.10?