Rebodied cars and do they get certified

[Musclecarkid]

Amen, What he said.

[Stuart Adams]

If you remove the tag and place it on another car - Mike Tyson cell mate. If a Supercar is found and not restorable unless the tags are swapped - no guarantees in life, lifes a bitch, what rule sais it's Ok to swap it, because its rare and worth $, NOT.
If you have the firewall section and tag attatched from the factory and re panel the car - that is OK in my book, not fraud. Be honest about it.
You can put any drivetrain option you want in all these cars but don't mess with the VIN/TAG, pretty simple in my mind. Can't be a special provision because of money ( like people with big cash getting special treatment when they break the law).
Heck, if you live in Woodland and drive a Chevy with an airplane motor in it its still within the rules....

[camarojoe]

Allen, I disagree, and this is MY silly analogy of why....

The day Elvis Presley (or pick your favorite celeb) was born, there were 100 other newborns just like him born at the same hospital and cared for by the same people... that doesn't make every kid born in the hospital that day an Elvis Presley... just like it doesn't make every Camaro body that rolled off the line at Norwood "the same" as one that became a COPO or Yenko, Motion, etc...the fact they all originated in the same place doesn't mean jack squat... I don't buy into this idea that it doesn't matter what body is behind the VIN and trim tags... that's as important as the driveline IMO...maybe more so. If I were to buy into your way of thinking, then every clone car, 6 cylinder, or 307 powerglide car out there is one set of tags away from becoming a "real" COPO or Yenko supercar... It doesn't work that way... A COPO might have had 7 engines and 6 transmissions in it over its "lifetime", but its still a COPO or a Yenko... but it doesn't matter how many L72's you've stuffed between the fenders of a car that was originally a 6 cylinder, its never gonna be a supercar. And thats not to say a non-supercar isn't fun, fast, or enjoyable to own and enjoy... It just is NOT a supercar and never will be. I don't care if you rebody a supercar with non-supercar body that was originally painted in the same color, with the same interior color and trim level, built on the same day by the same guys, one car down the line... its still not the right thing to do.You can't rebody a supercar without losing the car's soul. I'd take a real car with zero original drivetrain over a fake car with every mechanical part added from a real one.

[kwhizz]

2000 year debate...........

Ken

[RichSchmidt]

I see where you are going with your post,but you have to remember that all but a very few of the most valuable supercars actually have what could be considered a "restorable" skin.Basically all thats left out there on the unrestored supercar market are rusted out hulks that are being pulled out of the mud in junkyards,and hacked up race cars that have nothing but their original firewall,roofskin and doorjambs intact.People are still trying to restore these cars.We arent talking about some cars with a few litle rust holes and some dents,we are talking about cars that are damaged so bad that they often dont have enough structure left to them to allow the doors to be opened without the body breaking in half.You can replace any single part of a car's body and it is O.K.,but of you replace all of those parts together it is wrong.You mention these supercars as if they were people,but they are not.Unlike people,cars can exist as any sort of comglomeration of parts,and here are some scenerios.

Car one is a "restored original".The original car had extensive rust and collisoin damage which is typical of most 35 year old cars.During the repair of this damage,the car had it's entire florpan replaced with a chinese repop,it had both full quarters replaced by NOS pieces,it had the rear frame sections replaced by chinese repops,it had the trunk floor and dropiffs replaced,it had the roofskin replaced,it had the toeboards replaced,the tail panel and both inner and outer wheelhouses were also replaced,it had both full rockers replaced with full repops,and it had the upper cowl area replaced at which time the VIN and cowl tag had to be reattached onto the replaced upper cowl box.When the job was done,the only original sheet metal on this car would be the lower portion of the firewall,the litle scrap of sheet metal around the trunk weahterstrip,and the rear kickup panel.This is pretty typical of the restoration involved on a 35 year old car.When it is done,the expert craftsmen who performed the work will make sure that every spot weld and every swath of overspray is as close to original as possible.

Car number 2 started out as an equally damaged supercar.Instead of replacing each part one at a time,the owner extracted the few useable parts from his original car and discarded the remainder into the dumpster{which is where all these parts from the first car ended up}.Now the difference is that instead of spending 2 years and endless dollars trying to recreate what GM made 30 years ago,he goes on a seatch for an original unrestored and rust free 6 cylinder car.He then atached all his remaining parts to the 6 cylinder body,sends it out to be cleaned and then refinishes it just as was done in car #1.Now however instead of having to guess how many spot welds held the inner and outer wheelhouses together,and having to try and replicate the spacing of each weld,and replicateing the brushmarks of the seamealer,he has a car with parts that actually left GM 35 years ago in assembled form.

So which car is a more acurrate depcition of the original.

Car number 1 is totally legal since each panel was replaced one at a time despite the fact that most of the parts werent even made in American let alone 35 years old.Car number 2 is a fraud and should be banished to the junkyard where it should be shredded before it can ever possible confuse anybody into believing it is original.

Of course in a perfect world,all restored cars would be time capsule survivors that required nothing but a fresh coat of wax and some armorall to be in show winning condition.In reality,all but about 10 percent of all the original supercars were in the condition of the cars mentioned above.Maybe in the opinion of some people,these car should both be destroyed to make the true survivors more valuable,but as long as it is O.K. to replace any single piece on one of those survivors,you will have a hard time telling the owners of cars 1 and 2 that they cant replace all of the peices at the same time.

[camarojoe]

Without question its car #1. Its got lots of replacement stuff, but its still the car you started with... Car # 2 is a rebody, and the original car is in the dumpster...what you made with car #2 is basically a clone with supercar tags.

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Car # 2 is a rebody, and the original car is in the dumpster...what you made with car #2 is basically a clone with supercar tags.

[/ QUOTE ]

A rebody, yes, due to replacing that magic firewall part of the shell, but how can it be called a clone if it has the original engine/tranny/rear that corresponds with the VIN?

[Mr70]

I call that a Transplant.

[camarojoe]

Its a clone because the car assigned that Vin, trim tag, and drivetrain are not with the car they came with, they are in a 6 cylinder car.

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a clone because the car assigned that Vin, trim tag, and drivetrain are not with the car they came with, they are in a 6 cylinder car.

[/ QUOTE ]


With that sort of logic, it almost would seem that a "clone" of what was there originally would be when a replacement/restamped non-original drivetrain is installed in that original body. That's a replication of what was originally there, but isn't anymore. Blow the motor, replace it with something that appears to represent what was there, it's now a clone.

They didn't put the shells together any differently between a 6 cyl. Camaro/Nova and a big block SS or Yenko Camaro/Nova...... A shell is a shell is a shell..... It's that engine option on the order form and engineering bill of materials that made that VIN represent something special and drove all of other special hardware that accompanied it.