If you found one of these race cars today how would your restore it?

[big gear head]

I just couldn't enjoy a as delivered car. All you can do is look at it. I want to drive it like it was intended to be driven, without damaging it. My RS/SS 396 4 speed Camaro would be worth much more if I had restored it to as delivered, but I wouldn't want to own it anymore.

[GrumpyJeff]

I dont wanna say" As delivered" Showroom resto's are a dime a dozen or that they have no personality, because That's how i remember most of them, tearing up the streets when i was a little kid.. But if a car has Stock Eliminator or Super Stock heritage, and has survived relatively intact, even if it was only locally raced. Its a No brainer for me regardless of potential value. If its been cut up and tubbed etc... beyond recogniton i generally dont even have much interest either way. I prefer " Period correct as Raced "

[69 Post Sedan]

Restore as raced.

Here’s the perfect example of a VERY cool COPO that had race history and was appealing to the eye…..then it was restored to assembly line correct…..aka cookie cutter. This car HAD so much character.

Again, this is my opinion but if you were to put the two cars next to each other, I guarantee the race car would get more attention…..and be worth as much…..possibly more.

Kurt

[turbo69bird]

It’s amazing to me how good that green 69 looks in the dark green w cragars compared to all the other pics . And I like some of the others.
The ralley green pic is that the same car? Dint like it nearly as much in that color w that stripe. It still looks pretty beefy in the bottom stock pick compared to many I see stock. But that too pic although likely mainly still fairly original overall looks amazing!
Now that we have a. Pretty good idea where the votes are going, I can share my thoughts
I personally think it’s a shame that so many cars have lost what made them so special in the 60s and 70s and went back to stock . Stock was a starting point. That’s about it , I feel like no one left a car completely stock unless it was your dads car or you were a total dork! And let’s face it even the dorks didn’t leave them stock ��. So many weren’t stock that it became cool to put them back to stock . But now so many are stock it’s cool to have the ones that arent stock but period correct, and to me the dealer owned race car is the best of both worlds. It’s what the guys who bought them stock were trying to emulate when they bought. Win on Sunday sell on Monday wasnt a saying for no reason. But that’s just my .02 what do you guys think?

[carnut4life]

I definitely prefer The RatiCal One in its day two or as raced condition but appreciate the owners choice to restore the car as he saw fit, its a great car either way.

I mostly agree with you on your other thoughts but the guys that left them stock were probably more mature than the rest of us that did or would have modified and beat the hell of of them if we were around back then. There are a lot of survivors out there today that had different wheels on them back in the day or had the manifolds and smog system removed for headers so I think the guys that left them totally stock back then were few and far between, which in turn makes the cars they owned even more celebrated 50 years later. Great thread by the way!

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by carnut4life

I definitely prefer The RatiCal One in its day two or as raced condition but appreciate the owners choice to restore the car as he saw fit, its a great car either way.

I mostly agree with you on your other thoughts but the guys that left them stock were probably more mature than the rest of us that did or would have modified and beat the hell of of them if we were around back then. There are a lot of survivors out there today that had different wheels on them back in the day or had the manifolds and smog system removed for headers so I think the guys that left them totally stock back then were few and far between, which in turn makes the cars they owned even more celebrated 50 years later. Great thread by the way!

Thanks I was hoping it would be a fun thread for everyone . I certainly like the cars both ways I can appreciate both for sure. And in the camaro world both are celebrated , in the Pontiac world however Day 2 doesn’t get the respect it deserves in my opinion . You either see modified, todays stuff on them. Or stock . Period correct restorations are typically seen only on early 62 63 SD cars

JR stock / stock eliminator is what made the muscle car craze in the first place. These lettered up dealer race cars drove the whole muscle car craze and sold all these other cars we see. So to me that’s the pinnacle of muscle cars…. There’s just not much representation of these cars out there today .
That’s not to say they should all be one way or the other, I think all one way and not the other makes for a very boring show no matter which way it is. We all know it started w private guys w shoe polish lettering in the 50s (my dad was one of those guys) but when the dealers got involved and started going crazy w lace, cob webbing, freak drops, endless line, and panelizing etc the cars got interesting . I could page through pictures of 60s early 70 race car paint schemes for hours.

Not to mention JR stock / stock eliminator was filled w the most cunning and talented mechanics racing has ever seen . Grumpy jere stahl , John dianna to make a few of the Chevy guys. Things like leaving a carb loose so the linkage at full throttle would rock it back and create vacuum leak w springs pulling it back forward and down .to make more CFM at WOT were brilliant tricks . Of course it had to be jetted up the same amount to compensate for the air leak . This is why so many stockers woukd be clearing thier engines from loading up back then .
Cutting off the nubs on Brake tensioners so they would not tighten in reverse and have little to no friction, taller front tires for rollout, taller rear tires for more contact patch rather than width which wasn’t allowed, cool cans and other items stock class racers employed. Just brilliant
These stockers IMO should be celebrated

[Pro Stock John]

Seems like a lot of the Hemi Dart guys still race them and have restored them to race trim. That's not so much the case with the GM guys.

[R68GTO]

I've had so dang much fun with my car, I have to pinch myself sometimes. From the people I've met in the hobby to the prior owners it's just been a blast. Having lived the topic of this thread, I'll give my perspective:
If I didn't get to meet Rick Wilkins and Denny Davis and only had a few vintage photos of the car as Rats Nest, I probably would've just done the stock restoration. With the detailed vintage pics showing every paint line and sticker, combined with their personal stories and how much the car meant to them, Denny's Dad, Doug's wife, it gave the car an identity. Hell, they had an image of it on Doug's headstone and he only owned it like 4 years! I felt like I had to get it back to Rat's Nest trim. So I guess at the end of it all, I did it for them more than for me. With the vinyl and the vintage speed parts, it's about $8K worth of "extra expense". Most of the speed parts will likely go on my next project assuming I sell the car in stock trim (I think worth more that way) so I will only be out the cost of the vinyl. Either way, I would do it all over again under the same circumstances. The only change might be to reverse the order....vinyl it up, run the hell out of it, then do the factory resto. Sorry for the long response. I'll end with some pics of the people that inspired the process, and the car of course - even though you've probably seen them already

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by R68GTO

I've had so dang much fun with my car, I have to pinch myself sometimes. From the people I've met in the hobby to the prior owners it's just been a blast. Having lived the topic of this thread, I'll give my perspective:
If I didn't get to meet Rick Wilkins and Denny Davis and only had a few vintage photos of the car as Rats Nest, I probably would've just done the stock restoration. With the detailed vintage pics showing every paint line and sticker, combined with their personal stories and how much the car meant to them, Denny's Dad, Doug's wife, it gave the car an identity. Hell, they had an image of it on Doug's headstone and he only owned it like 4 years! I felt like I had to get it back to Rat's Nest trim. So I guess at the end of it all, I did it for them more than for me. With the vinyl and the vintage speed parts, it's about $8K worth of "extra expense". Most of the speed parts will likely go on my next project assuming I sell the car in stock trim (I think worth more that way) so I will only be out the cost of the vinyl. Either way, I would do it all over again under the same circumstances. The only change might be to reverse the order....vinyl it up, run the hell out of it, then do the factory resto. Sorry for the long response. I'll end with some pics of the people that inspired the process, and the car of course - even though you've probably seen them already

SCCA type road race cars are usually worth a lot more with racing history . Idk if it’s because you can NOT race in the vintage class without a car that actually was once raced and documented as such or what. I think the pure stock guys should do an old Jr stock lettered up class like that personally maybe let guys run off the record for their class for that year car?

There’s classes like NETO and others gasser classes etc. But that’s a bit different.

Idk why a stock showroom (anyone could buy it) car would be worth more (maybe it is) but these cars that were raced many (specially ordered) with factory backing of some kind were the True super cars of their day IMO
One that was recently for sale Jim
Minos old car was restored stock but once was a spectacular race car IMO . I know which way I’d rather have it and which I’d personally pay more .

Jim’s car was an awesome car either way don’t get me wrong like it a lot stock, LOVE it in race trim. This is another car that could be done with vinyl and bolt on race parts. But I don’t think I’d ever change it back .

[carnut4life]

Originally Posted by R68GTO

I've had so dang much fun with my car, I have to pinch myself sometimes. From the people I've met in the hobby to the prior owners it's just been a blast. Having lived the topic of this thread, I'll give my perspective:
If I didn't get to meet Rick Wilkins and Denny Davis and only had a few vintage photos of the car as Rats Nest, I probably would've just done the stock restoration. With the detailed vintage pics showing every paint line and sticker, combined with their personal stories and how much the car meant to them, Denny's Dad, Doug's wife, it gave the car an identity. Hell, they had an image of it on Doug's headstone and he only owned it like 4 years! I felt like I had to get it back to Rat's Nest trim. So I guess at the end of it all, I did it for them more than for me. With the vinyl and the vintage speed parts, it's about $8K worth of "extra expense". Most of the speed parts will likely go on my next project assuming I sell the car in stock trim (I think worth more that way) so I will only be out the cost of the vinyl. Either way, I would do it all over again under the same circumstances. The only change might be to reverse the order....vinyl it up, run the hell out of it, then do the factory resto. Sorry for the long response. I'll end with some pics of the people that inspired the process, and the car of course - even though you've probably seen them already

That car looks stunning in either configuration Jim!