Restamping blocks??????????????

[EZ Nova]

Unfortunately guys, the $$$ got in the way of the hobby/passion for these cars.

I started this thread to inform those about a very strong feeling I had that this certain "69 COPO Chevelle has at least a re-stamped engine and possible trans. There are doubts on the body, but that's another issue???? I just see this as FRAUD if you knowingly re-stamp an engine and pass it off as "numbers matching". I think it's no different then swapping VIN tags. If I went out and stole a COPO car, changed the tags then sold it as one of the "lost" COPO's, how is that any different then if I stole the same COPO, kept the body, and re-stamped the engine to one of the lost COPO cars???? Or maybe I should re-stamp my 052 block and pass it on to someone as an "original" '69 ZL-1 block out of a long lost car???
see my point.

NOw on these so-called experts that look at cars. Well maybe today there pretty good with internet and other ways to get data. But I will tell you a story about a past friend of mine:

Seems many years ago, (hell 15-20 years anyway) he heard and stumbled across a GT-350 COUPE. YES COUPE not a fastback. Seems the car was local to us and he thought, being a big Ford guy, he would check it out. The story I got is the car had been stilling for years. Guess it had been raced, there was some sort of issues so the owner was working on it in a shop/garage. Well something happened and the owner never got back to fixing the car. Not sure if he lost interest, died or what. So when my friend went to look at it, he said it was like a time capsule. Tools on the fender, hood up, parts on the floor and off the motor. So my friend bought it. Fully restored it and took it to the big Shelby show in the states. WELL the so called "experts" were all over him saying this is for "authentic" cars and not this made-up clone. That is till Carol heard about it. He came over to see it and all the experts were sating how Shelby never had these and that the records didn't any. Well Carol spoke up and said "MAN, I haven't seen one of these in YEARS". He then went over the car and CAROL authenticated it, not the experts. Carol said they tried 6 COUPE for racing. He thought they were destroyed racing but a coupe DID make it out to customer. THIS WAS ONE OF THEM.

So it just goes to show you, you can't always know what you have or what the experts think they know. SOME of these things did happen, RARE but it did. The world would have lost this particular GT350 if it wasn't for Carol being the one to say "YES it's real"!!!!

[Lynn]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EZ Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately guys, the $$$ got in the way of the hobby/passion for these cars.</div></div>

Exactly. Same reason Picasso is forged, Renoir is forged and the $100 bill is counterfeited.

Even when someone is exposed, it seems very rare that they get prosecuted.

[RST]

Cool story EZ Nova, I agree, there is always the exception, a lot of us on the forum have seen some interesting things over the years, some in a very good way, and some in very bad ways.

Wishing you all a fantastic weekend [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

[JayR]

Until the mid 90's, GM Canada documentation included the actual microfiche printout sheet showing your car. The sheets also showed dozens of other cars. I have one sheet with eleven L79 Chevy IIs on it. One of them is an SS in the rare, Canada only P code Plum Mist Metallic. You could virtually build a car from these sheets. VIN, colors, options, engine suffix codes, key codes....everything was there except engine casting numbers. A friend of mine actually built an L79 Chevy II 2 door sedan from one of my sheets. All he needed, but never got, was a new VIN plate and cowl tag. It still has it's original U.S. VIN and cowl tag and always has been presented as a clone, but it proved how easy it would be to build a car from these sheets and get GM Canada documentation for it. There are probably hundreds of these sheets still out there. GM Canada now requires proof of ownership before documenting a car, but that wasn't required earlier on. There are several of my cars still out there carrying documentation obtained in the 90's by giving GM Canada a VIN over the phone. Scary stuff.

Bob

[mr 707]

i dont want to get to specific. Trust me alot of guys on here know all about it. You have to hold peoples feet to the fire if they want to play with the counterfit game(( fake tag and the BS)). Auctions are not a shield from fraud. A fake Picasso is a fake picasso. Get an expert opinion on a car your interested in. Or bring detail of a car to this SYC. They skewer bad cars on this site.

[bergy]

I could look at it either way Sammy. There's a Pace Car on eBay with factory engine, trans, and rear. It's pretty clear that if/when restored it won't have any original sheet metal on it - none. So, will that car (when restored) be more &quot;original&quot; then an original sheet metal car with original engine &amp; rear, but replacement trans? I'd pay more for the original sheet metal car sans original trans. JMHO - I'd also say that the original sheet metal car in this example is more deserving of Gold.

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could look at it either way Sammy. There's a Pace Car on eBay with factory engine, trans, and rear. It's pretty clear that if/when restored it won't have any original sheet metal on it - none. So, will that car (when restored) be more &quot;original&quot; then an original sheet metal car with original engine &amp; rear, but replacement trans? I'd pay more for the original sheet metal car sans original trans. JMHO - I'd also say that the original sheet metal car in this example is more deserving of Gold.</div></div>

I had this discussion years back with I think Marlin about that. I am more in favor if something has to be original let it be sheetmetal, subframe, interior and things that you can see.
My Z/28 has a correct dated replacement motor. I would rather have that then a rebodied car with
born with&quot; drive train and maybe just the cowl tag if I had to make a choice.

[kwhizz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could look at it either way Sammy. There's a Pace Car on eBay with factory engine, trans, and rear. It's pretty clear that if/when restored it won't have any original sheet metal on it - none. So, will that car (when restored) be more &quot;original&quot; then an original sheet metal car with original engine &amp; rear, but replacement trans? I'd pay more for the original sheet metal car sans original trans. JMHO - I'd also say that the original sheet metal car in this example is more deserving of Gold.</div></div>

I had this discussion years back with I think Marlin about that. I am more in favor if something has to be original let it be sheetmetal, subframe, interior and things that you can see.
My Z/28 has a correct dated replacement motor. I would rather have that then a rebodied car with
born with&quot; drive train and maybe just the cowl tag if I had to make a choice. </div></div>


Sammy........Send that &quot;Beater&quot; here to the Midwest and we will LS it so you can drive it......LOL

[bergy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could look at it either way Sammy. There's a Pace Car on eBay with factory engine, trans, and rear. It's pretty clear that if/when restored it won't have any original sheet metal on it - none. So, will that car (when restored) be more &quot;original&quot; then an original sheet metal car with original engine &amp; rear, but replacement trans? I'd pay more for the original sheet metal car sans original trans. JMHO - I'd also say that the original sheet metal car in this example is more deserving of Gold.</div></div>

I had this discussion years back with I think Marlin about that. I am more in favor if something has to be original let it be sheetmetal, subframe, interior and things that you can see.
My Z/28 has a correct dated replacement motor. I would rather have that then a rebodied car with
born with&quot; drive train and maybe just the cowl tag if I had to make a choice. </div></div>

I agree completely Sam. It's obviously a subject with differing opinions though! I'm certainly not being critical of the judging standards - hats off to the guys who dedicate their time &amp; talent to the effort!

[70 copo]

If you cannot beat them, provide incentive to declare....

http://www.bloomingtongold.com/image...elines2015.pdf