Authenticating A COPO

[DW31S]

For my money, Jerry MacNeish is the way to go. I say this NOT because he is a personal friend, but because in the real world of big-buck Camaros his credentials and "blessings" are well accepted. He is recognized as the "go to guy" to authenticate or DIS-PROVE a collectible Camaro. I know a fellow that found an old race car that has a pretty good likelihood of being a COPO. I keep suggesting that he call MacNeish to verify the car. In my opinion that fee MacNeish charges could add significant value to the car, and if turns out NOT to be a COPO (all signs show it is), then no big deal---he owns the car for about $500.00 more.
I kinda got away from Camaros over the years and concentrated my efforts on my REAL PASSION--OLDSMOBILES. I remember years ago buying some parts from Brauer (Sterling VA) to finish up a '69 Pace Car, and he had just acquired a REAL GM P-O-P machine and tape--we were laughing saying in years people will probably be faking P-O-Ps, stamping blocks, and faking trim tags. Who woulda guessed........................
Oh yea, one more thing, in the Oldsmobile world "F" heads (1970 W-30) are hard to find and very pricey.........now there are more of those heads mysteriously surfacing than Olds made and 1969 H/O intakes are being reproduced--imagine 25 years ago thinking someone would actually reproduce P-O-Ps, trim tags, and CAST IRON Oldsmobile intake manifolds------Oh what a web we weave!!!!

[Super_Z28]

Thanks DW ... Jerry was very gracious in helping me last month on another car matter, and your right he's the go to guy ... I emailed him this morning to see if he would come to Canada as Im sure there would be a long long line up to seek his services ... I asked him last month and he's very busy but said it was a possibilty ... If not I will arrange to take the car to him ... If anyone else is interested in Jerry coming to Toronto, nows the time to let him know ...

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For my money, Jerry MacNeish is the way to go. I say this NOT because he is a personal friend, but because in the real world of big-buck Camaros his credentials and &quot;blessings&quot; are well accepted. He is recognized as the &quot;go to guy&quot; to authenticate or DIS-PROVE a collectible Camaro. I know a fellow that found an old race car that has a pretty good likelihood of being a COPO. I keep suggesting that he call MacNeish to verify the car. </div></div>

I have also known JM for years, helped with the '69 book, tagged along on a few appraisals. Don't place the &quot;authenticate&quot; or &quot;verify&quot; expectation on him. NOBODY can do that for a COPO without a VIN-stamped original engine or bullet-proof factory docs. As I previously stated it is far too easy to build a perfect clone these days; plenty of them out there already. Everybody knows the parts needed; all you have to do is find a Norwood 8 cylinder coupe built 02D or later; nice if it was a factory Muncie 4-speed. I've had BE axles, XT wheels, HD BB radiators, those parts are out there.

I can quickly think of two people that &quot;verified&quot; cars that turned out to be something less. What do you think happened next?

[Super_Z28]

Thanks again William ... We plan to go through the car with a medical camera scope to verify new VINs were not welded in ... Impossible to finish inside the heater box panel or cowl lip ... I will have it pulled apart and ready for Jerry to do a &quot;full&quot; inspection ... I know pics exist of the renovation and am trying to track them down ... I believe the motor to be original and again I will not stop until some of the top experts feel it is undeniably real or stamped ... For the integrity of the car and the hobby I will not stop until &quot;bullet proof&quot; documentation clears or convicts the car ...

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super_Z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks again William ... We plan to go through the car with a medical camera scope to verify new VINs were not welded in ... Impossible to finish inside the heater box panel or cowl lip </div></div>

After 37 years in the business/hobby I've seen a lot. I have never re-bodied a car or been a party to it. However it is possible to re-locate the entire panels with the hidden VINs. The heater box panel is particularly easy; just punch out the spot welds. My last Z/28 had right side cowl damage and it took the shop maybe 2 hours to R &amp; R the entire side pod. As for the cowl top Chevy used the same piece on Novas for many years; I think it was about $9 new. It is also spot-welded in place.

There are other better ways of detecting a poor re-body and I'm sure not going to go into them here. But someone who knows the cars well would know how to do it.

[Super_Z28]

Im hoping the car is true but I want to know 100% that it is one that was never touched ... Believe me when I tell you this is a show stopping restoration and will be harder to detect if any dirty work has been done to it .... I will hold the car out there for all to scrutinize ... I have collected sports memorabilia for 30 years and the profiteers and scammers have destroyed that hobby ... I will do my part to stop them from destroying this one !!!

[bergy]

For a high dollar car - get every piece of documentation that you can. I see the process as having three legs to rest on: 1. Physical inspection &amp; certification, 2. Factory/dealer paperwork, and 3. Ownership history &amp; contact info.

[Hylton]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a high dollar car - get every piece of documentation that you can. I see the process as having three legs to rest on: 1. Physical inspection &amp; certification, 2. Factory/dealer paperwork, and 3. Ownership history &amp; contact info. </div></div>


Very sound advice Bergy! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img]

[John]

... Do they do any &quot;certification&quot; a the Camaro Nationals&quot; ?

... Here is the link.... It is coming up this month in Maryland.

http://www.mdcamaroclub.com/Nationals.htm


Good Luck [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

[William]

Hope that works out for him.