70 Judge RAIV and V continuation

[Charley Lillard]

GTO_DONS post is exactly what is not needed here. He has been banned for awhile. Please don't anybody else here stoop to that level of post.

[mrmuscle]

don,i havent posted in quite a while because i basically got tired of argueing with people that are dead set on trying to prove something without even looking into the whole picture and for some reason seem to have something personal to lose if the two cars were proven to be real and maybe even find others. most of all i got tired of people degrading mr knafel and acting like he was just some "old car dealer" when in reality we have seen that he was the most winning racer of pontiacs of all time and was inducted into ohios hall of fame. (i could go on but that is not necessary). now, don, you have just documented what kind of a person you really are. obviously you cant handle anyone ever disagreeing with you and when they do you break down. you have a weakness and that is sad. CHARLEY LILLARD posted a response to me on the board that asked me not to attack billybobcat. which i was not trying to attack him, just wanted to know why he was so worried about the possible cars being proven real. i would expect him now to make a very harsh statement toward your actions.
you have made statements you have not backed up. like when are you going to post the copies of the phs sheets that you have with the memo and special equipment options on them? also, do you know gary daniels? if so do you have something against him? i havent seen anything you have posted that is productive on this topic. just total denial and negative statements. and now you are making physical threats toward people. you are an embarrassment to this board. it is obvious that people are enjoying this topic (seeing how it is either the biggest or second biggest, based on what i have read, i have not actually looked at all of them to document that (c m a))alot of people have put alot of input into this with attachments and information. what have you done (other than make yourself look like a child that didnt get his way). you have given pontiac people a black eye with this behavior. i would post a gremlin but they dont list one that would fit you.

[DaJudge]

Wow [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] you go to the gym and the stuff hits the fan. I could not read the post but wow must have been a good one. I know Don and have seen his documents with the memos. I will get them and post them for him, he was not [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] He in fact has them. He does not know Mr Daniels , his point was that he knows he has a nice Pontiac Collection and would have the means to get all the RA V goodies, there is no ill will or feelings towards him. There has been some interesting information exchanged here but the car has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt if anything most of the posts have agreed with Don that no Ram Air V GTO's were produced or shipped by the factory.

Go to Pontiac's website look under motorsports and find the motorsports history tab they have an article on the RA V called the Ram Air V the hottest Pontiac engine that almost was. It's pretty good. Best Regards

[pont406]

one of the articles of information sourced by Mrs bobcat, was from "Guide to Musclecars" Magazine August 1987 issue, i was looking thru my copy, 8 page article on the RAV motors! show pic of casting # 689539 WY, another pic show 98-V-400-RV-01, DS-1101 #1,EO-3777 both pics of same block .claims that the 400RAV passed 1970 emissions test,without a smog pump! the 303's had to have a smog pump to pass! claims insurance/warranty, plus having problems getting the RAV rods, manufacturing problems killed it's chances of being a regular production option engine.but that's not to say that something like the car in question "didn't happen" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

[Steve_Hoog]

Here's a pic of the code on Tom's bad boy motor.

[Norm reynolds]

I have a story that I find interesting on how GM is not all ways telling the truth Have any one heard of a 1954 Oldsmobile F 88 for the last 40 some years Gm has said that there was none around that were built at the factory This one car was at a display at GM motorrama and once out of the spot light it was order destroyed and never leave GM grounds This car was built on a 54 corvette frame and its body was all so made out of fiberglass but that was the only thing the shared with the vette the F88 was powered by
olds rocket 88 324 cid with a stock four barrel carb with 9.0.1 compression ratio
Rated at 250 hp It was backed with four speed Hydra Matic transmission with a 3.55 corvette rear axle it all so came with power windows Remember The 56 corvette only came with a blue flame six backed with a powerguild and did not even have roll up side windows
What happened is good old Harley Earl pulled a fast one on the GM top brass
He was ordered to dismantle the car and have it destroyed He did have it dismantle but had it crated up and it all shipped to his friend E L Cord Cord died in 1974 but his grandson remembered the stack of large wooden crates in his grandfather garage for years not knowing what was in them Cord nerved opened the all those crates
Later the still disassembled car was sold to Bill Barker but he did nothing with it so years later he sold it to Jim Brucker he also did nothing with it his son had said his father paid 1000.00 for it and remembered the large crates Six mouths after senior Brucker death The son sold the crated up car to Leo Gephart a classic car dealer for 3500.00 this is where the car finally was to take shape the story gets pretty long but the
Point is there is NO documents for this car no vin number and after 1954 supposed to never be seen again When you think of it this car for its day must have been fast as heck blowing away the corvette So I would say 95 % chance that there was never a RAV
Pontiac that was built BUT that 5% chance is who knows what some one could have done late one night have it disassemble ???? we might never know But do I feel that there are no documents to be found for the RAV just like the F88 it was not support to be Hear is the car today Bet Harley Earl must be laughing form heaven
[image]

[L67WT1]

Thats a great story and I agree that a lot of show cars and concept vehicles were hidden and were removed in a stealthy fashion from GM. I am sure the pride of the people who put these cars together and designed them from clay to a working vehicle was behind some of that and it would be difficult to see these cars destroyed. What ever happened to the Hot Rod test car Judge with the white stripes?

With the RAV story though many people that were involved with GM or doing testing for them are still alive today ie: John Delorean, John Sawruck, George Delorean, Jim Mattison, and Jim Wangers ( I know he was the marketing guy and the competitive nature between the dealerships). Let's remember Pontiac had a new general manager at the time in 1970. That is why the 70 GTO's got sway bars on the rear Delorean did not like them. I feel that if he was still at Pontiac at the time you would have found some 70 cars that had motors shipped and slated for a dealer install like the 69 Bobcat car.

It would be excellent to get a panel discussion going at the GTO Nats in Pontiac, MI next year with some of the above people to discuss this issue. I know I would sit in on it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
With the RAV story though many people that were involved with GM or doing testing for them are still alive today ie: John Delorean, John Sawruck, George Delorean, Jim Mattison, and Jim Wangers It would be excellent to get a panel discussion going at the GTO Nats in Pontiac, MI next year with some of the above people to discuss this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

John's son, Jeff Sawruk (who is also a Poncho NUT!), is supposed to be checking in, and Mattison has been on the board for some time. So, looks like we're well on our way!

[copo9566aa]

Total production of RA V engine = 80 (Crate Block)
This is real or a legend.???

[Steve_Hoog]

I plead the 5th.......