Barrett Jackson Las Vegas

[Mark_C]

All the various sites, have edited, locked or othewise closed down the threads on this car. Thats about the worst thing that can happen since now the car is tainted with no explanation as to how it got to where it is now. I don't think that classicgary had anything to gain by making up a story about tags, vins and paperwork sold 4 or 5 years ago without a body. If his name is on the title as a previous owner then there is some serious issues here.

J. McNeisch's report said the car had a "restoration drive train" (along with other stuff) in it, and yet the buyer, who you would assume read the certification, still paid 125K for the car. Was Jerry's report altered? Something is going on that needs to be answered.

[njsteve]

Here's a recently locked post.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...=1#post1087917

The gary guy put in a retraction of his previous posts and the administrators locked the main post...right after I replied with my "law school exam question" description of the whole mess.

[Kim_Howie]

OPPS

[Xplantdad]

Thank god I just drive my car...

[quick-bowtie]

As for Jerry's report I dont remember seeing it on display with the car I may be wrong though, one thing Ive learned is just because they say in a cars description it has been inspected by Jerry or Galen our what ever guru you want doesnt always mean it has a good report.

Im sure some sellers list that hoping that the buyer will assume the car is good because and expert has looked at it and then let the unexpecting buyer find it out later when its to late.

I think its buyer beware and you have to do your homework on cars but I remember watching this car cross the block and Gary Bennett PUMPED the hell out of the car to the crowd as if he really knew the car..

[Canuck]

I will be curious to see if the footage of that sale is included in the endless reruns over the next 3 months.

Paul

[Les Quam]

I don't know why I am following this perhaps its like stopping to look at an auto accident on the side of the road?

Its my understanding the original shell absent the identity tags was sold and the identity tags with the paperwork was sold at another time??? Then we are presuming they were never reunited?????????

Anyway, NJSteve I think despite the boilerplate consignment K the buyer is a buyer in good faith and if his funds have not been disbursed BJ can and should withhold payment to the seller pending the cloud being removed from the title? In this case I think the cloud can be removed by removing a fender and checking for the hidden heaterbox VIN? That would be best answered by a Camaro expert? The way I read the K, BJ doesn't waive liability for selling a car with an illegally transferred VIN once they are put on notice. Absent notice I think they have no liability? In this case it appears BJ is on notice the car may have the VIN and identity of another car and I think if I was advising them I would advise them to withhold the funds and put the funds in escrow. I would also advise them to just go out and pull the fender while this is removal is being videotaped and look for the VIN. The NHP would also do it while the car is still here. If no VIN or wrong VIN I would tell the seller to pick up his car and give the buyer his money back. It doesn't matter whether the seller was a good faith seller in due course he is stuck with the car. I know BJ doesn't pay their sellers for at least a month so the funds should still be there. If the car has been shipped it needs to come back to Vegas and NHP can investigate its identity.
What do you think?

It also seems to me when the car was being restored someone during this process would have looked at the hidden VIN under the heaterbox? How would that not have happened? Just wondering?

Bottom line this why I can call all the original owners of my three Camaro's I own. Camaro world is a very scary place sometimes. I need to talk to live bodies before I will buy a Camaro.

[DarrenX33]

Owner history is a good thing. Like you Les, I have plenty on both my cars.

[Les Quam]

I think what causes this case to be different is that BJ may be on notice that an issue as to the cars identity exists? Or at least we are inferring that BJ knows about the problem based on the other internet forums threads? It doesn't matter now in my opinion whether classicGary is real or not it appears from this thread, paperwork with the cars VIN was sold on ebay as well as possibly the body shell which is sufficient to prompt an investigation into the cars identity I would think?

If it is true Ron Pratt bought the car if I was BJ I would be working toward resolving this since he is one of their best customers. ClassicGary and his assertions may or may not be accurate and could all be fictious but it appears the shell and paperwork were sold on ebay I would think the buyer would want this thing clearly resolved? And quickly.

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why I am following this perhaps its like stopping to look at an auto accident on the side of the road?

Its my understanding the original shell absent the identity tags was sold and the identity tags with the paperwork was sold at another time??? Then we are presuming they were never reunited?????????

Anyway, NJSteve I think despite the boilerplate consignment K the buyer is a buyer in good faith and if his funds have not been disbursed BJ can and should withhold payment to the seller pending the cloud being removed from the title? In this case I think the cloud can be removed by removing a fender and checking for the hidden heaterbox VIN? That would be best answered by a Camaro expert? The way I read the K, BJ doesn't waive liability for selling a car with an illegally transferred VIN once they are put on notice. Absent notice I think they have no liability? In this case it appears BJ is on notice the car may have the VIN and identity of another car and I think if I was advising them I would advise them to withhold the funds and put the funds in escrow. I would also advise them to just go out and pull the fender while this is removal is being videotaped and look for the VIN. The NHP would also do it while the car is still here. If no VIN or wrong VIN I would tell the seller to pick up his car and give the buyer his money back. It doesn't matter whether the seller was a good faith seller in due course he is stuck with the car. I know BJ doesn't pay their sellers for at least a month so the funds should still be there. If the car has been shipped it needs to come back to Vegas and NHP can investigate its identity.
What do you think?


[/ QUOTE ]

Great point. I totally forgot about the delay in payment that the auction houses have. This is the exact reason it's there (and to collect that month's worth of interest on the money ).

Now that the auction house and the seller/buyer are all on notice of this issue, I bet that at least the NHP and the NICB will be there for an inspection. The NICB has a lot of experienced investigators that specialize in examining VIN swaps for chop shop cases. They have a lot of "vintage" car guys that know their vintage cars, too.

BTW, I mentioned this idea on the Camaro site:

This would be a great opportunity for someone to establish a "pre-certification" process that documents a car's body/drivetrain as "born-with" by establishing baseline conditions before any work is done on it, as well as during and after the restoration.

It's kind of like getting permits for building a house...you get the foundation OK'd then the electrical checked off, then the plumbing, etc., until the final certificate of occupancy is granted. You don't just build the house and get the paperwork afterwards to prove you did it correctly.

For example: you find that proverbial semi-rusty, barn-find, black and gold ZL-1 and that's when you have someone come out and photograph/document every square inch of it including all the confidential VIN locations. Then when it's in the midst of the metal work, he comes back again to check it off, and then after paint you get a certificate of originality (or occupancy if you aren't going to drive the darn thing ).

It's kind of like what we do here by photgraphically documenting our never-ending restoration stories. You are there to see every step from the find to the finish with no mysterious missing chapters.