russo and steel chop job camaro copo

[BUIZILLA]

if the car was sold from here on as a *tribute* or *clone* car, would that end the legality issue?

JH

[EZ Nova]

I think they should just "brand" the ownership as a rebody, just like they do with cars that have been "totalled" in a crash. I would not consider this a "clone" or a "tribute" as it was made from a geni car. For whatever reason, it has had the body changed and the OEM VIN was place on this shell. I would say it's worth more then a clone, but not as much as a OEM COPO, somewhere in between.

I would rather see a rebody to save the car as such, a rebody of the OEM COPO or whatever, but the info should be up front. Like if the car was a total rust bucket. But at least it can be saved. Just let the market know therefore the the $$$ would reflect.

We as a group should lobby the lawmakers to do something like branding the ownership on a rebody for whatever reason, rust, crash, fire, at least it would save these from the crusher.

[68 Vert]

I agree, they should have a salvage title...

Mike

[motion68]

Hey Drew - your market segment is telling you something. Change your business paradigm, and think about how you could help us clean up the hobby. How about this: YOU set a standard of disclosure for all of the cars that pass through your house. If the seller's representation meets YOUR standard, and you offer the car, then everyone wins - the seller gets the sale, you make money in your business, and the buyer gets what was represented. After all, the buyer is paying the house money as well as the seller. I'm sure you have all sorts of knee jerk reactions as to why this simple system won't work. I will make a prediction, however, RS can be the absolute best, most respected auction house in American, bar none, if YOU will lead with integrity. If not, the Feds will pass laws, regs, and fees to govern our hobby. In addition, a knowledgeable customer base with the means to buy your cars, will run from your show (if indeed they haven't already) So how about it, Drew, if you love the hobby as you say you do, step up, and help us keep this thing alive and well. Bob

[BUIZILLA]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Drew - your market segment is telling you something. Change your business paradigm, and think about how you could help us clean up the hobby. How about this: YOU set a standard of disclosure for all of the cars that pass through your house. If the seller's representation meets YOUR standard, and you offer the car, then everyone wins - the seller gets the sale, you make money in your business, and the buyer gets what was represented. After all, the buyer is paying the house money as well as the seller. I'm sure you have all sorts of knee jerk reactions as to why this simple system won't work. I will make a prediction, however, RS can be the absolute best, most respected auction house in American, bar none, if YOU will lead with integrity. If not, the Feds will pass laws, regs, and fees to govern our hobby. In addition, a knowledgeable customer base with the means to buy your cars, will run from your show (if indeed they haven't already) So how about it, Drew, if you love the hobby as you say you do, step up, and help us keep this thing alive and well. Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

word..

[king_midas]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Drew - your market segment is telling you something. Change your business paradigm, and think about how you could help us clean up the hobby. How about this: YOU set a standard of disclosure for all of the cars that pass through your house. If the seller's representation meets YOUR standard, and you offer the car, then everyone wins - the seller gets the sale, you make money in your business, and the buyer gets what was represented. After all, the buyer is paying the house money as well as the seller. I'm sure you have all sorts of knee jerk reactions as to why this simple system won't work. I will make a prediction, however, RS can be the absolute best, most respected auction house in American, bar none, if YOU will lead with integrity. If not, the Feds will pass laws, regs, and fees to govern our hobby. In addition, a knowledgeable customer base with the means to buy your cars, will run from your show (if indeed they haven't already) So how about it, Drew, if you love the hobby as you say you do, step up, and help us keep this thing alive and well. Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this at all Drew's fault and/or responsibility to ensure fairness? He's an auction house, not a dealer-- He just puts buyers and sellers together, and allows each to fend for themselves (i.e.: Reserves to protect sellers, and the buyer can walk away if/when they want).

If you don't agree with the way Drew does it, start your own auction house, as you've apparently stumbled upon a business opportunity.

[motion68]

I too happen to like Drew's auctions. I attend them and have in the past been a bidder. The point of my comments are not to imply or infer that the auction house has either the blame or the responsibility under the current system. I AM suggesting that there are solutions to the reported abuses and misrepresentations in our hobby. This forum is the beginning of the disclosure solution as it provides a process for a buyer to learn specifics about a car of interest. Auction houses can greatly assist in this process. It is certainly their perogative to run their business as they wish. Maybe someday, one of the houses will step forward and begin the change in their industry from caveat emptor. I happen to think that the first one that implements disclosure will win. What possible down side is there for the auction house? Since Drew is an enthusiast, and in position to effect they way his house does business, I was (and am still) urging him to give it some thought. Bob

[Mr70]

I like your idea & still suggest this idea too,as I did earlier when we were discussing auto auctions recently...
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post320740

[BUIZILLA]

[ QUOTE ]
I too happen to like Drew's auctions. I attend them and have in the past been a bidder. The point of my comments are not to imply or infer that the auction house has either the blame or the responsibility under the current system. I AM suggesting that there are solutions to the reported abuses and misrepresentations in our hobby. This forum is the beginning of the disclosure solution as it provides a process for a buyer to learn specifics about a car of interest. Auction houses can greatly assist in this process. It is certainly their perogative to run their business as they wish. Maybe someday, one of the houses will step forward and begin the change in their industry from caveat emptor. I happen to think that the first one that implements disclosure will win. What possible down side is there for the auction house? Since Drew is an enthusiast, and in position to effect they way his house does business, I was (and am still) urging him to give it some thought. Bob

[/ QUOTE ] for every bad car Drew would lose by implementing this policy, I predict he pick's up 2 better cars in return, it's a no brainer good business move to me...

[Drew Alcazar]

Hello Motion68,

From an idealistic standpoint, I very much agree with you. Where things start to get “sticky” is when the Auction House, in any way what so ever, begins to involve itself in the representation process (from writing descriptive text, to implementing research, to initiating disclosure measures) we then are placed in a position of liability and responsibility for the integrity of the transaction. Very true, we benefit a great deal from this transaction (in almost 20 pages of posting, I never heard any one mention that we had significant commissions on the table over this deal that completely disappeared when it went south) so there is indeed tremendous value to the auction company to ensure that a car is correctly represented so that a deal “sticks” and we can pay some bills with the applicable commissions.

To that end, and with a very pragmatic and “realistic” perspective, I would very much enjoy a conversation and suggestions as to how we can provide this measure of accountability without exposing my company to undue liability. By contract, we have specific provisions that address this to some extent, but as we all know, there are numerous ways to be “duped” either maliciously or unknowingly by a seller.

I think the very best scenario has been inviting (and many times we do) known authorities in the hobby to attend our sales. Galen Govier for example has been a tremendous help, as has Kevin Marti, Ed Meyer, Jim Wicks, etc. There are also many organizations that have lots of archived information. Look at the Shelby American Automobile Club for example. The larger question is, how can any auction house scrutinize hundreds of cars when so much of what our discussion has been about in this instance requires some degree of dismantling?

Just to cross-reference the Ford VIN number (on file with SAAC) requires the removal of the Shelby SFM VIN Tag. Some could argue that simply drilling the rivets out could be an illegal act, but can you image if I accidentally slipped when drilling them out and let my Makita slide across a freshly restored fender? Yikes!

I am already in the process of re-painting the cowl panel off the silver Camaro we have been discussing as it was scratched to hell from removing the wipers and then tossed in the trunk by the defaulting buyer. Here we go again, another couple of hundred bucks to ‘fix’ something following shipping charges, entry fees, lost commissions, and two upset clients. No problem Drew, just keep smiling…

As you can see from just these two scenarios (one hypothetical and one sadly very real) getting involved with this level of discovery by the Auction House has some real serious liability associated with it.

So the question is: how do we provide some level of assurances to our buyers (over and above what is stipulated by contract) – maintain a ‘level playing field’ for all – and not open our selves up for tremendous risk while still fulfilling the objective of what we all want: Honesty.

Lord knows we work pretty hard to deliver to our bidders the very best level of customer service I know of. From Josephine’s killer food buffets in Scottsdale to full coverage insurance binders from Grundy Worldwide to offering free shipping for 6+ purchases, not to mention our block being reserved only for credentialed clients, I believe this evidence clearly demonstrates how much Russo and Steele values their Bidders.

I am open to suggestions on how to address providing an additional level of protection to our buyers. These discussion forums are great tools to “hear what the hobby has to say” – learn, adjust and continually work to improve our level of service and integrity.

I will look forward to realistic and constructive comments and suggestions. We are all stronger together than we are apart.

Drew Alcazar