russo and steel chop job camaro copo

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
It would seem that it is their responsibility not the buyer..

[/ QUOTE ] Thats exactly why some owners bring thier cars to auction and try and get people to certify thier cars, so they can pass the buck when the car is discovered to be a rebody or a perfect clone. No auction house or individual has ever removed heater boxes and sanded firewalls back 3 feet on 100 point restored cars,not realistic. Years ago the NCRS got smart to this and made a waiver that even if a car got 100 poits it didnt mean it [top flight certificate] could be used as "documentation" or proof of authenticity,rebody,restamp etc even though they gave 100% on a pad stamp,

[Drew Alcazar]

Fellow Enthusiasts,

The buyer of this vehicle never funded the transaction. As a result, the vehicle has been returned to the seller. Any allegations regarding the authenticity of this (or any other vehicle) will be fully investigated by the principals involved.

Reckless claims and unsubstantiated allegations in any public forum, including this board, serve no tangible benefit for our hobby. Russo and Steele, the auction house has taken the appropriate steps in this scenario and has mediated a suitable resolution.

To place the seller of this vehicle at any disadvantage, regardless of its history, without specific evidence and with unsubstantiated claims is simply unfair.

This matter is now closed. Please do our fellow collectors the courtesy of allowing them to proceed to engage the appropriate professional authorities to accurately determine the disposition of this automobile.

Drew Alcazar
President – Russo and Steele, L.L.C.

[x Baldwin Motion]

Nice, Drew. thanks for stepping up.

[njsteve]

I second that. Thank you Drew, for the professional response.

[motion68]

Hmmmm. Doesn't sound like Drew's syntax. Looks like everyone lawyered up. In any event, 'twas a good discussion on this board and helpful to me as I collect "authentic" "survivor" "real" "true" "numbers matching" cars in the future (whatever the heck those terms mean). My purchases (and sales) will probably be from this board 'cuz from all accounts Bob

[Unreal]

"Reckless claims and unsubstantiated allegations in any public forum, including this board, serve no tangible benefit for our hobby."

Isn't this the same Drew Alcazar who boasted that his company did the right thing by "shill bidding" to get the price up?

[ZL1#17]

[ QUOTE ]
To place the seller of this vehicle at any disadvantage, regardless of its history, without specific evidence and with unsubstantiated claims is simply unfair.


[/ QUOTE ]

With no disrespect, IS THIS NOT SPECIFIC EVIDENCE?
[ QUOTE ]
the vin # on the cowl has been cut out and replaced by the real copo vin # , but it is a terrible job and if you take a mirror and look under it you will see the welding all around the numbers ----- the worst part about it is the way russo and steele does bussiness , they wanted their money anyway and did not care, drew threating me by saying that he was going to call the cops and charge me with a stolen car,, maybe what i should has done was call the cops my self and they would have taken the car by (auto-theft police) and destroy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[HiHorse]

The rebody could of happened in Canada, and there is a possibility the seller was not aware of it. This is a terrible situation for all parties. It would be impossible/unreasonable expectation for the auction house to be an expert in every make and model to determine a cars authenticity. Buyers must be aware and do their own homework. Yes there is recourse for the buyer in these situations but if the homework was done the buyer would not be faced with all the aggravation.

[Drew Alcazar]

I find it very interesting how much bickering, whining, pissing and moaning has now started to occur since the market for American ‘musclecars’ has worked through this inevitable correction.

Look, a couple of years ago, this sector of the collector car marketplace was like a really good “Frat” party. Everybody was getting drunk and laid… For those of us enthusiasts who have been long time collectors (since before the last party in the late 80’s) watching while cars that used to be parked behind barns to rot doubled and tripled in value was entertaining at times, others frustrating.

During this “party period” we saw cars which we had always wanted and had finally aspired to be able to afford have values rise so exponentially that many complained that collectable musclecars had gotten out of reach of ‘real’ enthusiasts.

Hey, that’s life. This value escalation resulted in many succumbing to the lowest common denominator: Greed. Lets be really honest with ourselves as collectors and realize these are 40+ year old cars. When they were new, they were never intended to last this long. They should have been dust by now… Not only were they built by union minorities following 6 pack lunches and a joint; we drove the living piss out of them! Hell, blown drivetrain components on the way home from the dealership was a common occurrence. Then, gas prices went sky high and nobody cared about these ‘guzzlers’ and the fact that we are still driving an automobile with a V8 (or even more) today was once thought to be insane.

So what does all this mean? Mostly it translates to a very rude awakening now that we have to clean up the empty beer bottles and try to find our wadded up shorts. When things were “going nuts” few cared to investigate numbers, castings, stampings, etc. Some got so caught up in the “moment” that they had no idea about things like “re-stamps” – “re-bodies” etc. or the very subtle but very important difference between words like: “numbers matching” vs “original numbers matching” vs “documented original numbers matching”. All three mean very different things to those of us who know better.

So here we are today. In a correcting marketplace, with old cars that were not built all that great in the first place, run hard and put away wet when new, then neglected, then ‘re-discovered’ as values rose to the level that enticed many to fall victim to the “dark side” and start doing all kinds of unscrupulous activities.

Hey! Wake up! Those that are lost in some idealistic haze that the world is a wonderful place and everyone loves each other need to puff, puff, pass and then shut the hell up! The realities are that these old cars have endured many years of “lord only knows what” – bought, sold, traded, restored, etc. by “lord only knows who” and to think that ‘bad people – bad cars and bad things” do not happen is just simply naive.

Here is the bottom line. THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE QUALITY, CONDITION, ‘CORRECTNESS’, HISTORY, OR ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT A POTENTIAL AUTOMOBILE PURCHSE BELONGS 100% WITH THE BUYER.

Period.

To expect, that AFTER you buy, sell or trade in these cars someone else is responsible for your ignorance is just stupid. Seeking to place blame anywhere else, other than on yourself following a failure to clearly understand the obligations on BOTH sides of buying and selling is just lame. The simple fact is: No one is responsible for you – but you! Please do me the courtesy of not confusing me with someone other than just a fellow enthusiast that loves these cars and the camaraderie of the people who collect them. I am NOT the Mommy… I don’t wipe up after some baby dirties their diapers, I don’t burp, pat or wipe. Please, for the love of this hobby, stop all the whining. It is embarrassing…

Sound more like my syntax?

Drew

[AutoInsane]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the bottom line. THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE QUALITY, CONDITION, ‘CORRECTNESS’, HISTORY, OR ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT A POTENTIAL AUTOMOBILE PURCHSE BELONGS 100% WITH THE BUYER.

Period.

To expect, that AFTER you buy, sell or trade in these cars someone else is responsible for your ignorance is just stupid. Seeking to place blame anywhere else, other than on yourself following a failure to clearly understand the obligations on BOTH sides of buying and selling is just lame. The simple fact is: No one is responsible for you – but you! Please do me the courtesy of not confusing me with someone other than just a fellow enthusiast that loves these cars and the camaraderie of the people who collect them. I am NOT the Mommy… I don’t wipe up after some baby dirties their diapers, I don’t burp, pat or wipe. Please, for the love of this hobby, stop all the whining. It is embarrassing…

Sound more like my syntax?

Drew

[/ QUOTE ]

Hummm... exactly why I will never buy a car at auction. It is not cheap to run a car through an auction and the auction company wants to take ZERO yes ZERO responsibility for what they are offering. All the profit with none of the accountability. It is embarassing....