THE LAST??? 1967 Z-28

[70 copo]

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....it was apparently the 'last' known 67 Z body shell to leave the fisher body side of the Norwood plant...

Nope. See above.

Everyone thinks that the body tag was immediately attached to a body. It wasn't. It remained in queue, probably in a vinyl bag with the rest of the paperwork until Chevrolet instructed Fisher Body to start production of that specific dealer order.

But some of you believe the 07C car was built first. Absolute nonsense.

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William

I streamlined your last reply a bit so I could respond. You are incorrect. The tag was on the car, and paper was already generated even before the roof was attached. The last time I got into a discussion on this issue at two years ago with another guy on this very topic, the guy at that time had the same story that the "tag was delayed Body build up was delayed, tag not attached and that no Paper was generated on the body until the body reached the Chevrolet side". I concluded that discussion by producing the following Photograph which I took from another photo on my kitchen counter. The Glare from my kitchen light is clear on this photo that was stored on my hard drive.

Somehow this same photo was lifted and made it to the CRG technical article. As you can see the Tag was on the car even before the roof was on it and the car had already production Paper Work already.

Cars were built in order at Fisher. How in the world could GM track them any other way? This build order was the Body Number.

Cars were also built in sequence at Chevrolet Final assembly also bu VIN#. The scattering of the VIN's was a product of Downline parts availability and the staging lines where the cars were held prior to VIN assignment and computer lock for final assembly at chevrolet.

This explains why the VIN's appear to be out of sequence compared to the body build up.

Hey Kurt--If you guys at the CRG need a better copy of the photo I posted 2 years ago the last time this topic was raised (and then used by the GRG for its article) - let me know and I will send you a better one without glare from my kitchen light.

Phil

[Steve Shauger]

Hi Phil,

Did you provide that photo and a couple of others in the mid nineties to the USCC. I seem to remember that picture in their Camaro Enthustiast magazine.

[William]

I have finally stopped laughing enough to respond to that 'picture'.

Look behind the Camaro - that's an A or B body. The photo was taken at the Van Nuys plant. The discussion concerns Norwood, where Camaros were built in VIN sequence.

[70 copo]

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I have finally stopped laughing enough to respond to that 'picture'.

Look behind the Camaro - that's an A or B body. The photo was taken at the Van Nuys plant. The discussion concerns Norwood, where Camaros were built in VIN sequence.

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William,

Yes It is a LOS Photo. Are you saying that GM built cars using differing basic processes between Nor and LOS? If so Please share.

[70 copo]

William,

I have read with much intrest your missive in reply to the seller. And I have to say your reply above is much better (and more courteous) than you gave me earlier. In review however you make plenty of totally unsupported assumptions.

I could easily write a page in oppisition to each point you make - save a couple of areas where we both agree.

Here is an offer.. Convince us of your claims. How about sharing the "data" that you base this all on? I am quite sure it's likely % accuracy could then be calculated based on the sample of cars in the D base you are referring to vs the HUGE total production of Camaros in 1967.

How bout it? You are the one who was initially critical of this poor guy's car in this thread. Come on how about it? Share Please. I cannot wait..

[William]

Yes Norwood and Van Nuys were different. Van Nuys built other Chevy models; at that time Norwood only did Camaros.

I was not critical of anyones car. I pointed out that I know of a '67 Z/28 built later than his.

The CRG db is proprietary; not mine to share. But here is a summary:

Starting at the 1st 07A data point the CRG db has just over 200 cars, in VIN order just like they were built. At data point 18 there is an 06E Z/28 with a July 5th engine. There is no way that car was built anytime in June; according to the few Canadian shipping records I have the car was probably built July 10th. That means all the Fisher build paperwork and body tag for this car sat untouched for up to two weeks. Engines became available; the car was scheduled and built. Moving along another 21 07A builds there is another 06E car with a July 5th engine. That car was definitely built July 10th. After another nine 07A cars the first 07B tag appears followed by 5 more, then another 07A. It goes back and forth until data point 95 – the 67 Z/28 our business owned. 06E tag, July 6th engine, built on or about July 12th. From that point on it is all 07B until data point 187/188, the first 07C tags. A few more 07C tags, more 07Bs. The last data point, very close to the end of production is an 07B tag.

There is no possible way these cars were built in “body tag” order. If they were 06E tags could not have July engines. They were built as Chevrolet scheduled them and received VINs in sequence as all the known shipping records show. Once again Chevrolet did not care one bit about the date on the tag. By July ’67 both plants were changing over to 1968 model production [June 67 builds are known] so there were plenty of scheduling headaches.

Good news!! My last post on this thread.

[Belair62]

Very interesting stuff.

[iluv69s]

Alright....so I am thoroughly confused again...ayayay

So...for the record..I will state what I now'think' is fact... heheh

- I have the only 67 Z-28 that any person has come forward with or that is publicly known that has an 07C cowl tag.

True or false??

-07C is after 07B as far as the GM dating sequence...

true or false??

-My cowl tag was made after any 07B cowl tag...

true or false?? (not sure on this one)

Thats about all I can state for sure at this point I believe..

So I have still a few questions...are you saying that the cowl tags got made..mine being made in the 07C week..but the cars did not even get started while the cowl tags were just all stored in a folder for a while??

and as far as the GM of Canada stuff...Was a Camaro built all in the same day...I realize that many were built each day, but were they started , painted, and completely built in one day??? I'd find that hard to believe..but I really don't know...so, what does the build date actually mean anyway??? Start date?? Finish date?? Ya know what I mean???

The latest pic sure seems to prove that the trim tag was on the car before it left the Fisher side?? But then again, it does not prove that the cars are in body sequence order on the line...soooo???

I think that it is apparent that for some reason one of the cars got held up...but, we will probably never know...and likely will probabaly never know which car was actually the first to be made or started...as the cars may not have been in body sequence order in fisher apparently?? and if so, they were not VIN'd in any type of body sequence order...so depending on where the glich was...would make the reason more clear...

So did I thoroughly confuse those that arent already?? I definitely confused myself some more..

Back to " the only publicly known and latest 'cowl tag' dated 67 Z....period...100%%%

thanks again for all the interest...ayayaya

[olredalert]

-----Phil,,,Dont want to get into the middle of this "discussion" but would like to know if the tag was on the body before the roof because they had to know what roof to put on the car??? Vinyl roofs would have had the knobs for the trim clips maybe???.........Bill S

[firstgenaddict]

The studs were welded on later... besides the studs were on the quarters not the Roof for V-top... The studs were on the roof for the front and rear reveal moldings though... CRG assembly process has all the steps including the stud welding.