RESTAMPS R US...come get your restamped parts

[elcamino72]

It seems that they are "wilma99" on ebay and looks to me to be in Tennessee.

[737Driver]

In an attempt to play the Devil's advocate, does anyone use reproduction tires on your restorations? Originals are available although usually more expensive. Do you always apply laquer paint, because it to is available? How about original poor quality chrome valve covers instead of the gorgeous reproductions? And is the Tonawanda decal the original or a reproduction.

I bought my carb from Eric and my completely original smog system from Bill Hodel. My distributor came from Jeff Dotterer and I have original valve stems and caps and am looking for NOS original tires. I am trying my best to keep things original. On my Corvette I even found original braided and correctly dated spark plug wires.

882 and 884 alternators in the Corvette community are getting darned near impossible to find. John Pirkle almost never sees them anymore. I am very fortunate he is restoring my original now. If you do find one, oh boy, get ready to spend some more than serious money. If someone did put a restamp 884 on a restoration, would they be trying something that is unforgiveable (on the sly, I believe it was)? I believe the day is approaching when a reproduction on some of these items will be the only alternative for some if they want 'matching numbers.' I believe that some folks may simply not have the expendable income to fork it over even if they do find a rare item. Should they absolutely not be allowed in the hobby?

I hear what you folks are saying and as a NCRS and Bloomington Gold judge, I have to stay on my toes to be able to detect these items. I don't, however, think it is heresy for some to use them. At NCRS and BG, we judge the item based on how it appears in comparison to original. If it is undetectable, it gets full credit. If it is detectable then a point deduction is made.

I do admire and appreciate seeing original parts. I don't believe those that may use reproductions such as tires, alternaters, valve covers, etc. should be banished for unacceptable behavior.

Regards,

Mark

[Keith Tedford]

Never mind that you hardly ever come across some of the original parts, how about whole cars. In the whole of Southern Ontario I know of only a couple COPO Chevelles on the road, and one slow poke who needs go get his behind in gear. There are a couple of Camaros and at least one is a clone. Using restamped parts is the only way to get a half correct car on the road any more. A built clone around here is about as close as most people are going to get to seeing the real thing. I don't mind a well done clone. Many are poorly done, and the good ones are just liable to end up on the market claiming to be the real deal some time down the road. I guess you just do what you feel comfortable with. There is a nice dark green ZL1 clone that comes to the Haugen's cruise night once in a while. Nice car that sure makes me envious.

[WILMASBOYL78]

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It seems that they are "wilma99" on ebay and looks to me to be in Tennessee.

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Just in case you were wondering...no relation to the real wilmasboy.....I've never been restamped!!

wilma

[Salvatore]

Never been restamped....how about remanufactured?

[VintageMusclecar]

While I understand the "need" for these parts in some circumstances, the unfortunate (and inevitable) result of these re-stamped parts going into circulation is that somewhere, sometime, someone is going to get taken to the cleaners buying something they thought was an original component.

This is the exact reason why I personally <u>absolutely refuse</u> to get anywhere near a restamped carb (or any other component for that matter) if/when I know it to be as such.

As I stated on my website in regards to restamped carbs:

"I have been asked many times if I will re-stamp a carburetor ID or date code, or if I can provide a re-stamped carburetor.

In no uncertain terms, the answer is NO!

I take extreme issue with the current crop of unscrupulous sellers who are passing off service replacement carbs that have either had their ID's ground off and re-stamped as an original dated carb, or those who add bogus date stamps to new re-issued carbs and again try to pass them off as originals. A certain very popular internet auction website is RIFE with examples.

(For what it's worth, there are numerous differences between many of these replacement carbs and the originals, and a trained eye can usually spot one of these replacement carbs fairly easily)

If YOU want to buy a new service replacement carb and have a date code stamped into it, that's fine, but don't ask me to do it.

Why not?

Some will argue "well, it's for my car, and as long as I own it I'll never try to pass it off as an original carb." That's all fine &amp; dandy, but what happens if/when the car is sold? Are the consecutive owners going to be as "honest" about these bogus components? Not likely. Then later on down the road someone finds out "I" sold someone a re-stamped carburetor and my reputation and credibility immediately go down the drain." (emphasis added)

If it were a perfect world where everyone could be trusted to buy a restamped part, install it on their car and NOT try to slip it under the buyers nose when the car is sold, I wouldn't care less about the matter...but we don't live in a perfect world, and unsuspecting buyers are getting hosed on bogus parts every day. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that seriously pisses me off. I can't stand seeing people getting screwed over like that.

I guess I'm too "old-fashioned" for my own good in today's business world.

Eric

[737Driver]

Eric,

I am happy you are the way you are and as long as I can afford it I will buy from people like you. The truth is, people have and will continue to buy fraudulent cars and parts. They will learn a painful lesson and most likely become a better buyer thereafter. Judges will try to stay on top of what is right and wrong so proper deductions and credits can be received. John Pirkle educated me on what is wrong with the current crop of very, very well done restamped alternators so, for now, I can see the reproductions.

Selling a well done reproduction as a reproduction is, in my opinion, completely acceptable. I don't think I need to say what it is when a reproduction is sold to an unsuspecting buyer as original. I think we all agree on what is morally right and wrong. I do believe it is wrong for any of us to say that anyone who buys these products is not worthy to be in this hobby or that they should somehow not be as welcomed as the all original 1.6 mile red/red climate controlled still on MSO ZL1 owner. I just believe there is room for everyone without any mudslinging.

Respectfully,

Mark

[VintageMusclecar]

Mark;

Allow me to preface this by stating that my replies are not directed at you, but moreso the indistry in general.

That being said...

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Eric,

I am happy you are the way you are and as long as I can afford it I will buy from people like you.

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Thank you, I sincerely appreciate that.

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The truth is, people have and will continue to buy fraudulent cars and parts. They will learn a painful lesson and most likely become a better buyer thereafter.

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I agree. However, that doesn't mean I will turn a blind eye to it or become apathetic and chalk it up to "s*hit happens" if I can help keep someone from getting burned.

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Judges will try to stay on top of what is right and wrong so proper deductions and credits can be received.

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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't the restamping issue gotten so bad that even the high-zoot Corvette crowd has essentially given up on trying to decide what's real and what isn't?

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John Pirkle educated me on what is wrong with the current crop of very, very well done restamped alternators so, for now, I can see the reproductions.

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If I ever get the chance to meet Mr. Pirkle, I will gladly buy him at least one of his favorite beverages. I am glad that there are people out there who have the ability (perhaps more accurately stated, "luxury") of exposing fraud. Unfortunately for me, were I to ever do the same, I would <u>instantly</u> be blacklisted in the business.

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Selling a well done reproduction as a reproduction is, in my opinion, completely acceptable.

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I agree, as long as someone else down the line doesn't try to pass a restamp off as the real deal. As far as that goes, I'll bet my bottom dollar that that's exactly what happens more often than not. Reality shows that it is impossible to have one without the other. Greed is an ugly, but powerful driving force.

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think I need to say what it is when a reproduction is sold to an unsuspecting buyer as original. I think we all agree on what is morally right and wrong. I do believe it is wrong for any of us to say that anyone who buys these products is not worthy to be in this hobby or that they should somehow not be as welcomed as the all original 1.6 mile red/red climate controlled still on MSO ZL1 owner. I just believe there is room for everyone without any mudslinging.

Respectfully,

Mark

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Again, I agree, but the fact still remains, no matter how hard we might try to "nice it up", fraud is fraud. I haven't the slightest issue with someone who buys a restamped part for their car, that's entirely their business. What I DO have an issue with is the people who intentionally try to screw someone else over by trying to pass the restamped items off as the real thing.

When I see someone who's stamped a date code into one of the new release Holley carbs and puts it up on an internet auction site with a carefully worded ad description that fails to <u>clearly disclose</u> that the carb is NOT an original unit, I call that fraud, period.

To me, this is no different than putting a bogus trim tag on a car, just on an obviously smaller scale (financially speaking, at least). If the car isn't a real COPO/Z28/ZL1/whatever, then what is the purpose of installing a trim tag to make the car something it isn't? Exactly WHO is the owner/seller trying to "fool"? They obviously aren't trying to fool themselves since they already know that a part (or the whole car, for that matter) is bogus. That only leaves one answer, and it's rather obvious.

Like I said, I'm obviously WAY too old-fashioned for my own good, especially in the line of work I'm in. I simply can not make peace with the issue in my own conscience.

I know I've lost a number of sales and restoration work because of my stand on this issue, but no matter what it might cost me, I will always be able to lay my head down at night with a clear conscience.

Believe it or not, I actually have a very easy solution to this whole matter, but it would never, <u>ever</u> fly for reasons which will be obvious in a moment; if no one has anything to "hide" by installing these restamped parts on their cars, then to show that, each and every restamped reproduction part should be clearly identified as such---say, a big "R" stamped on it in a completely visible location. If no one has anything to hide and they have no intentions to pass a reproduction or restamped part off as the real thing later on down the road, then what would be the harm?

Want to install a repop trim tag on your car and you say you don't have anything to hide? Fine..then stamp a giant "R" right in the middle of it.

Same thing goes for a restamped carb...what's the harm in stamping a giant "R" right into the main body?

Or an alternator...a big "R" stamped just below the ID and date code.

You get the idea...

If there's nothing to hide, then there would be no harm in doing this, and it would certainly make it considerably more difficult for a "less honest" person to try to pass it off as the real thing later on down the road.

Kinda defeats the purpose of restamping a part, doesn't it?

Exactly.

Eric

[P.J.]

Erick I am with you. I am sure that this club will help others who ask for information as to the originality of a carb or alternator ect ect.If you are purchasing a numbers car do you homework.

PJ

[WILMASBOYL78]

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Never been restamped....how about remanufactured?

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Sammy, I'm a survivor model....mostly original paint with a few touchups....driveline is born with...compression is still OK....shifter hangs up now and then....but it usually pops right back in to place with a little extra effort

Overall, good driver quality condition

wilma