Mecum Auction Hemi Fest

[quick-bowtie]

Its actually my old car.. I know of a few ZL1 that were found in the same shape with most of the parts missing and restored back to original. I dont think anyone is trying to rep it as a numbers car at least I hope not! Although alot of original pieces were missing.. It was restored with correct parts and done very nicely I might add. The car was pretty clean with the trunk (just the center section) and the upper valance being replaced, probably do to the vinyl top holding water, The car has super nice floors and frame rails its all body color underneath so its not hiding anything. The car does have its original body numbers (Vin, radiator support and cowl).. As for the fender tags, Galen made them and put what options he could find or tell the car came with with visual inspections and talking to previous owners (was restored and that way when I bought it). Galen inspected the car when it was found and also did a visual inspection and full report for me when I had it, Although its not a NUMBERS CAR it is a REAL 71' HEMI 4 speed car and pretty darn rare. And being its not a numbers car you can actually drive it and hammer on it alittle. =)

The car had a folder with every title copy from previous owners including the the first title when new and a copy of the original bill of origin, Magazine articles, Pretty bullet proof docs as to being a real Hemi car.

I wouldnt mind having the car back actually.. it was a pretty decent car if you can get over the fact it not a numbers car.. but the price will definatey reflect that..

[quick-bowtie]

Just stating what I know about it and what Galen has said and reported on.. Im sure njsteve knows more than I especially if he had to look at it in his yard for a year! What I would have given to be able to buy the car for 5k or 10k back then.. Crazy how those cars went up and up and up.. in 91' I was only in 9th or 10th grade I couldnt imagine asking the bank for 10k for a primered up project car! who knew...

[king_midas]

Yeah Quick, I hear you... You're just a few years younger than me, and I still remember the '69 RS-Z that I passed on that was sitting in a guy's driveway in a friend's neighborhood. Must have been 1988 or 89; I can't quite remember. It coulda been mine, hauled away, for $2K w/o engine/transmission, or $4,500 with the #s match rebuilt 302 and M-22 that he was running around in a '67 Corvette at the time.

It was super rare, 10-10 black, houndstooth, wood dash, wood wheel, no spoilers or cowl hood. Rusted very badly, but not by today's standards, and would be a dream come true for someone today to find something like that.

I tried to figure out how to buy it for the entire winter, but couldn't find the money. He eventually did sell it, and I think I actually cried.

Aaah, those were the days....

[x Baldwin Motion]

REAL DEAL CAR with matching body numbers

sins of ommission ( it's still lying )

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
REAL DEAL CAR with matching body numbers

sins of ommission ( it's still lying )

[/ QUOTE ]

Fraudulent misrepresentation in my books. Thanks for letting the members know about some history on this car Steve!

[LS6 RAT]

Guys,

I just read the ad that NJSteve posted above. If you read the ad, I don't think there is anything said that is not truthful. It says 3 fender tag (it doesn't say original), it says body matching numbers (it doesn't say engine original), it says Galen believes it to be one of the most optioned cars (it doesn't say they are factory installed). The description could be taken as implied, but it is very carefully written/worded, and I think a buyer would have a tough time disputing the ad as stated.

[njsteve]

That is great that you were able to track down the paper trail history on the car. It was a really neat car and not that bad a shape either, other than the trunk floor and rear window channel. I wish I had to foresight to have bought it, since at the time I had an NOS 1970 dated 426 Hemi engine sitting in my garage not 50 feet from where the car was parked. We built and dyno tested that engine for a later article.

No doubt whatsoever that it's a real car but that auction-speak sure raises my hackles. It reminds of of Slick Willy Clinton and the old "It all depends on what your definition of is, is" speach. I hate having to decypher what a seller is saying nowadays. I long for the old days when matching numbers actually meant "original born with, stamped at point of assembly and installation into vehicle at said original assembly plant prior to delivery to original destination dealer in year of manufacture" without having to specifically spell that out in an ad.

Maybe I (like most people on this site) am just cursed by the fact that I know a lot about these cars and I can see that someone with far less knowledge (and far more money) may buy it thinking it is more than what it is described as. And then that person will get all lawyerly when they think the car was described in a way that was not up to their interpretation of what the terms meant. (The old meeting of the minds, in legal speak.) Then again it's a world of "Caveat Emptor" to quote Greg Brady in the infamous 57 Chevy ragtop episode.

I guess I am too nice, When I sell a car I put it all out there for the world to know. No carefully worded descriptions. Using my best Jack Webb Dragnet voice: "Just the facts m'aam..."

[quick-bowtie]

I dont own the car anymore so if it sells for a dollar or a million I really dont care.. I am friends with the current owner but to say the ad is misleading and especially fraudulent get real!

How is this not a real deal car with matching body numbers?? The car is 100% a REAL 1971 HEMI CAR and Correct me if Im wrong but in the Mopar world matching body numbers mean original COWL, RADIATOR SUPPORT AND VIN TAG (all are stamped with the vin..( at least thats what Ive always been told and from the 10 or so HIGH end Mopar collectors I know they all say the same) all of which clearly this car has. So where is the lying coming in?

Say a Camaro on the Zl1 list is found and it has all its original hidden vins and original vin on the car is it real? Case in point the Green ZL1 that was found in California dressed as a Z28 with a small block.. restored to original with correct parts.. Nice write up about the car and sold for fair money.. Was that car not REAL? Because Id sure like to have it! Not a numbers car but didnt sell for numbers money either just like this Cuda will.

Im just confused NO where does that Hemi car say its NUMBERS MATCHING CAR, it just says matching body numbers to let people know its not a rebody because there are a couple floating around.

I personally dont see anything misleading thing with the ad, most people spending that kind of coin ask questions too. There is a ton of PROOF it is a Hemi car, Good docs, Galen made the tags and doc'd the car (most take his word as being good) it has had a very nice nut and bolt resto?? Im sure Galen will be on site at the auction, and his report will be available on the car..so what gives? The car is what it is and wont bring Numbers Matching money.. Infact I bet the owner will lose money on this car because the Mopar market has taken such a BIG BIG HIT.

Should the ad read old 1971 Cuda with trunk pan replaced and upper valance, body numbers are present and match but look for yourself, found in Florida by a couple Mopar guys, have some papers that are in a book, some guy from Wisconsin looked at it and said its real, looks good it has been worked on.

Do you think the owner is trying to hide something?? I pretty sure if he was Greg and Toms names wouldnt have been mentioned because most Mopar guys know the car as the Barber Shop car that was in the magazines back in the early 90's.

The car has a correct dated Hemi out a late 1970 Hemi Cuda, most parts are correct dated, it has a Dana 60, Hemi 4 Speed and restored back what Galen has stated it was. I guess if someone is a fraud it would he him then?? pretty sure most Mopars guy wouldnt agree with you on that one. Im not saying Galen is God but when it comes to a Mopar I myself trust him more than any other guy 100%.

Im not trying to start a war just curious why a legit Hemi car is getting questioned? And why the same fraudulent charges havent been made about 70% of the other cars out there that we all know about?

P.S. Yes Marlin those pics bring back great memories.. It was just like that!

[Hylton]

Fraud is a strong word in this case and I mis spoke but from the ad, you do not get the sense the car was at one time a shell of it's former self.

Steve's information (and yours) gives potential buyers more disclosure about the history of the car and that is never a bad thing.

[Johnny Horsepower]

Sorry quicky, I can't agree. I can only agree with the Clinton comparison. I know everyone wants to get the most for their car, but that description demands disclosure of a nom motor and non-original fender tags.
"Car is 3 Fender Tag car" we don't know if it is or not!
That wording, to me, implies that it came that way.

As a buyer i would rather get a good and true full description of the car. Facts like it has a good and correct date coded motor. Eventually a buyer will see the attempt at "deception by omission" and will now doubt the whole car and probably walk.
I am from the camp of put the whole ball of wax out there, not semantic games.

that said, i hope the car does well. Its a very nice real, NOM, made up fender tag with great un documented options and a great looking resto 71 hemicuda.

knowing the truth, you can't read that description and not feel a little violated.

just my opinion,

Respectfully,

John