A different Point of View ....

[nuch_ss396]

[quote... The Chinese government killed a few thousand pro-democracy Chinese in the Tienanman Square massacre in 1989 and America barely made a peep. Our software companies even today help the Communist Chinese government seek-out and identify dissident Chinese pro-America writers on the Internet and the government kills them. So why don't we topple the evil Communist Chinese government and free the oppressed people?

1. Because China has nukes and several million soldiers in their armed forces. (They might be able to kick our ass right off the Asian continent in a conventional fight.)

2. They are our business partner now. (This might be better placed as reason number 1.) (I thought Communism was bad?)

3. They ain't got no oil.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,

The Chinese manace is another very real problem we are
facing as a nation. Unfair labor practices are killing
the American workers dream. We simply can't compete with
a $2.00 per day ( whatever it actually is ) labor rate.
Some fine day we will realize this and stop going to
Walmart for items. Perhaps too late though.....
This country was built on a manufacturing base, not
a service provider base.

Sooner or later, we will zoom in on the Chinese too. But
you are right, they've got us beat via. attrition alone.
However, this is another argument for another day. Let's
focus on this one for now.......

Steve

[69LM1]

Bill brings up some good points. I am a republican, also a gulf war vet, and voted for bush both times. BUT, anyone with half a brain can see that there are some obvious issues first, with George W, and secondly with this war.
The problem is that alot of us cannot see further than our affiliations, for the same fear of being wrong that we attrib to the news media.

Let's take a simple, but relevent example. If I come on here or another chevy oriented board and start talking about the 67 GTA Mustang Cvt that we have, everyone wants to give us a hard time, some joking, some more serious! If I go to a mustang board where I have my 05Gt at, and show some pics of the 69 Hugger X66 car, they get up in arms. Why? Both sites are into cool cars. Both sites are into helping others with those cars. Let's face it, the mustang is the ONLY muscle car on the market and has been since 05. And it KILLS many of us to admit it, and the ford guys love it. Same point here.

Trust me, we will NEVER get ANY middle east country to be a successful democracy, at least in out lifetime. Bill brought up a good point with Lebanon, and I will add Palestine where they elected Hamas into control of parlament. That turned out real well, right? They will always be tribal. They only way we can force peace on <insert ME county here> will be as a brutal dictator. Period. Unless we are willing to do that, then we ought to get out. Saddam is gone, we rebuilt your schools and marshes (when we have not for New Orleans and the marsh land of Louisiana, but that's a different story), now govern yourselves or not!
Secondly, the world is full of tyrants: castro, chavez, warlords in Somalia. In fact, if we are strictly looking at human suffering, then Somalia is in much more trouble than Iraq, and that whole region is turning more and more to the muslim faith everyday.

We simply cannot force the world to be nice, and we can't buy their actions into civilized society. Furthermore, do we even have the right to demand that countries like Iraq be democratic, when we are more socialist than democratic as a country?

I am with Bill, if you are going to attack this country, we need to strike, hard and fast. Even Nukes should be an option. It works for Israel. They target the leaders, in their homes, with their children. Cold, yes. Hard, yes. But it is the only thing they understand.

Do you think that we would ever as a country, in this day and age, even consider an atomic bomb like Heroshima? I really don't think we have it in us.

Finally, before you PM me about how I am a republican turncoat, remember how you felt when the democrats defended Bill Clinton no matter what, how stupid they looked? That's how you look as a republican when you defend George Bush when he is wrong. The only winners in his administration is Big Business.

So, love the chevy guy that drives a mustang, and admit the new camaro looks like crap.

Group Hug...............

Rich

[427TJ]

Well said Rich.

[Kim_Howie]

I think we should bomb all WALLY WORLDS!!! Way to China for me!!!

Corp. America didn't get in bed with china, America slept with china. We all wanted cheap items. Well you have them now at the expense of losing alot of manufacters in this country. Thanks to NAFTA. I see china is building 300,000,000.00 pick-up plant in Mexico. Thanks to NAFTA they will come in the USA duty free. Wow what a deal!!! SCREWED AGAIN.

[Keith Tedford]

If you want to see where the lib left gets its foundation, just check out any university. If you are a student that doesn't see it the lib left way you are put down and ridiculed. I can introduce you to some people who have been there. Professors aren't teaching, they are pushing an idiology. Who do you thing runs our country for the most part? The lib left educated university graduates. It can get depressing trying to do the right thing with these clowns around. If every student had to do one tour of duty in one of these troubled countries, they would come home with a whole different perspective and they would forget everything that the professors ever told them. Our son and son-in-law have been is Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. The pictures and stories that they brought home were something else.
The Islamic fundamentalist are playing to win. There is no compromise. They intimidate, terrorize, or kill anyone in their way. It's a war we CAN'T lose.

[Kim_Howie]

Keith, high school is the same way.

[Keith Tedford]

Kim, We have teachers in our family with their heads on straight. Others I know don't have the sense to come in out of the rain and yet have papers that make them look like smart people. Just because you have a good memory doesn't mean that you can apply what you know. Up here our education system needs to be turned upside down and shaken out. Sounds like yours is the same.

[rsatz28]

[ QUOTE ]
Keith, high school is the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grade school too!

My 11 yo daughter came home a few weeks ago and announced that Bush was a murderer! Her 5th grade class was talking about current affairs, and the Iraq conflict was discussed!

We let the principal know that the Iraq conflict was not an appropriate current affairs subject for a 5th grade class.

[SSJunkie68-69]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to see where the lib left gets its foundation, just check out any university. If you are a student that doesn't see it the lib left way you are put down and ridiculed. Professors aren't teaching, they are pushing an idiology.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true Keith....Just look at the rush to judgement that was made on the Duke Lacrosse team by nearly 100 professors there that signed a petition condemning the players and the program. Over a year later the truth did come out, the players were cleared, the prosecutor has been disbarred and just Monday Duke came to an undisclosed settlement with the three players who were falsely accused and charged.

[ QUOTE ]
The pictures and stories that they brought home were something else.
The Islamic fundamentalist are playing to win. There is no compromise. They intimidate, terrorize, or kill anyone in their way. It's a war we CAN'T lose. [quote/]

That is exactly the point I was making with the original post and some where along the way, this thread took the slow boat to China. The Left as well as main stream media is telling everyone this war is lost. We have to leave. There is no way we can win this. This is a war we can't lose and we have to be able to show the rest of the world that once the US commits to something we need to stay the course and finish it through. If we don't no one, including the terrorist, will take us seriously. Are there some negatives about this, yes there sure as there is with any war but put the same or equal focus on the positives that are being accomplished too.

[Kim_Howie]

Your right Tom we do have to win this war period. What we are not looking at is the " big picture". When we started in this war several other country were involved "Spain" when spain was bombed by these Cowards. They were tolded to pull out and they did, they are now controlled by terrorist. The next country to go will be France after that England. Then there will be nothing to stop them from taking over us. I'm not talking about bombs, I'm talking about world trade they will stop oil to the US and we will be done. Think about it!!