Meaning of "numbrs matching" opinions please

[deuce-less]

perhaps some of us miss the best part of the hobby being caught up in the "numbers game"...

are we hesitant to even drive and enjoy our precious investment grade muscle cars??

what if we lose the original born with block because of an over-rev or missed shift?

i guess then we have to keep a non-numbers block in the car to drive and keep the born with block stored away for safe keeping...

or maybe a camaro we can flog without remorse when we feel the need and our original born with drive train car safe at home in its environmentally stable storage facility

there will be a day when we all wish we had spent a little more time with the pedal down and a little less time crawling under cars with a flash light checking numbers..


jmo

[BillD]

For years I have felt the statement "matching numbers" when used in an advertisement means pretty much NOTHING other than the vin number that appears on the block matches the vin number of the car. I have looked at cars advertised as "matching numbers" where the casting date of the block is months past the build date of the car, or the block has even been the wrong casting.

[Gregs396]

I am going to classify my understanding of a Matching numbers car, as one that does have the born with drivetrain.
If you have a replacement block or trans that don't have the VIN of the car that they are in, you don't have numbers that match. Some numbers will match, but not all of them. I guess that you could say that I have a car with partial matching numbers if you wanted to be 100% correct with your statement. Different VIN's on the car and block aren't matching no matter how you look at it. Yes, you can replace items such as manifolds, carbs, distributers with ones that are numbered and dated correctly, but those items don't have the VIN stamped on them, and there is no way to prove that they have been replaced to begin with. I agree that certain people have distorted the true meaning of matching numbers to accomidate what they are trying to sell, or what they have.

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps some of us miss the best part of the hobby being caught up in the "numbers game"...

are we hesitant to even drive and enjoy our precious investment grade muscle cars??

what if we lose the original born with block because of an over-rev or missed shift?

i guess then we have to keep a non-numbers block in the car to drive and keep the born with block stored away for safe keeping...

or maybe a camaro we can flog without remorse when we feel the need and our original born with drive train car safe at home in its environmentally stable storage facility

there will be a day when we all wish we had spent a little more time with the pedal down and a little less time crawling under cars with a flash light checking numbers..


jmo

[/ QUOTE ]

All valid points.Everyone is entitled to enjoy their car a they see fit- it's an elective decision.For some the joy is driving the car for what it was designed for,others it's the preservation and historical significance.Some of these high end cars are iconic,so yes perhaps the days of "enjoying them" in the dynamic sense has passed due to the risk.Obviously the attrition rate for motors was very high during the first years of ownership,because just about everyone drove theirs like the stole it.You can't have that missed up(or down) shift back any more than those docs that got thrown away during the Nixon administration.Once it's gone,that element of the cars history is permanent.

So yes,it's probably a good idea if you do have a high end collectible,like to drive your car in spirited fashion,and are lucky enough to still have the "born in driveline" it's makes both financial and common sense to put that motor aside in favor of one you're categorically less likely to lose sleep over if you pop it.I think to a degree some of these cars are the baton we carry as they change from owner to owner through time,couldn't even imagine how bad the feeling would risking damaging the car after so many years of prior discilpined ownership.

[JimM]

over at "home" we have this discussion about yearly.

Last year, it was pretty easily accepted that #'s matching meant the car carried the (vin stamped) block it left the factory with, "Date Correct" meant the original engine was long gone, but the car had been put back together with parts that "could have" been in it originally. CE Blocks, as warranty replacments, are almost numbers matching, and perhaps are if the paperwork detailing the replacement survived.

restamps were NOTHING MORE THAN FRAUD.

This year, that definition seems to be changing for many, particularly those who make money buying selling or restoring cars.

Frankly, I can't stand it. There is one and only one numbers matching engine for each and every Chevy that left the factory with the partial vin stamped on the engine block.

If you want a "numbers matching" car, get another car.

That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a well done date correct restoration. It will always be "not quite numbers matching" but many of these cars led hard lives, that's not unexpected and doesn't take away too much.

To dilute an absolute term in the name of dollars is unconscionable

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps some of us miss the best part of the hobby being caught up in the "numbers game"...

are we hesitant to even drive and enjoy our precious investment grade muscle cars??

what if we lose the original born with block because of an over-rev or missed shift?

i guess then we have to keep a non-numbers block in the car to drive and keep the born with block stored away for safe keeping...

or maybe a camaro we can flog without remorse when we feel the need and our original born with drive train car safe at home in its environmentally stable storage facility

there will be a day when we all wish we had spent a little more time with the pedal down and a little less time crawling under cars with a flash light checking numbers.."



how true that is, the day is NOW! I could see if you were fortunate enough to have a museum with several cars or could tour the show circuit with some trailer queens, original numbers matching is nice to proclaim. I prefer to mash the gas and keep the POP matching motor and trans wrapped up in the garage. if I cant drive it without worrying what is the sense?
Life is too short. Get in and go!

Chris