70-71 CAMARO BB 4SPD

[Charley Lillard]

I have not seen the build sheet but friends have and the owner is not one to make stuff up. I have seen the car but didn't bother to examine it closely because I wasn't aware of all the controversy at the time. He has probably owned the car for 20 years. He used to use it as his tow car to tow one of his other 70's to the drags. Another member here has seen the sheet. No takers on the 5K bet ?

[Steve Shauger]

[CamarosRus]

Everybody on this board has a certain speciality, niche, or passion re: the musclecar hobby. Mine happens to be 1970 Camaros. I ordered my 1st 70 Z-28 new, after returning from Viet-Nam in 1969. I currently own three 1970 Camaros; 1) R/S Z-28, R/S SS L-48 & SS L-78. I have been serving as a Camaros at Carlisle 2nd Gen Legends judge since 2004 (1st year of 2nd Gen Legends) and also judged with the old USCC.
Having said all that I DO NOT claim to know it all.
I have been involved in this controversial 1970 L-78/Turbo 400 argument for longer than I can now remember. BKH refered someone from NHRA(drag racing)to me, via E-mail.
A racer had been using a 70 Camaro Big Block with T-400 to compete in the Stock/Automatic class. Somebody in NHRA then started dissallowing the car, challenging if that combo had ever existed. The NHRA official asked me to investigate, as I could not answer him directly. I have spent the past 7yrs on the internet posting, having discussions, judging car shows, making & receiving phone calls on this 70 L-78/T-400
issue. NO ONE has ever been able to show me any evidence, brochure, literature, pictures, statement saying WITHOUT DOUBT they ever wittnessed such a car.
With 600 1970 L-78 originally built and maybe 100 (wild ass guess) still around, you would think that SOMEBODY would have knowledge or proof of ONE ever being built
It would be easy to change a 4sp L-78 to a T-400, except for removing the 4spd hump and having floor appear as factory auto. A person could install L-78 powertrain and L-78 VIN Tag into L-34/T-400 body. SEEING the L.A. build sheet of Jack's and having impartial 1st Gen Judges inspect the car hopefully would settle this never ending discussion.
I'm not willing to get into a $5K "pixxing contest" with Charley over this. I would be willing to contribute $$$ toward the expenses of having a legitimate FULL INSPECTION of this car. This would at a minimum show Engine block assy stamping, VIN stamping, T-400 stamping, 12 Bolt stamping, TRIM TAG authenticity and rivets, VanNuys build sheet, and unlikely to happen Firewall Vin stamping. Other misc dated parts could also point to this car being assembled or a survivor.
Below are pictures of book pages written about the subject.
FYI, Mike Steitz another L-78 owner and 70/2nd Gen judge is trying to accumulate a L-78 registry at www.nasty28.com (Original Forum) but needs more participation/cooperation

Regards to all, Chuck

[DarrenX33]

I don't have this book but just out of curiosity what Antonick's credentials? Just wondering where he got his information..

I tend to agree that if Charley says there is one, there is. However, it is odd that the info on the car is so hard to obtain. I find it interesting that this is such a hot topic.

[SS427]

Reminds me of a certain LS-6 that was supposably manufactured in Oct or Nov 69 that Chuck Hanson and a select other few have seen. I respect the man beyond words but until someone can show me and other researchers a real piece of documentation it does not exist.
Rick

[rsatz28]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have this book but just out of curiosity what Antonick's credentials?


[/ QUOTE ]

I did a quick Google search and many links with his name deal with Vettes.

[Late BrakeU2]

Paging Jim Mattison..

[DarrenX33]

You know that's what I was thinking to.. He is going to be at the reunion...

[Charley Lillard]

Darren...The info was not hard to obtain. The owner frequently brought the car to club meetings. He also frequently brought the build sheet in a binder with him. He dug his heels in when basically he had his car called a fake by Chuck. This guy has owned and probably owns more 70 Camaro's than Chuck ever has. To him there is no other Camaro than a 70. I'm sure he would probably allow me a day to look the car over but it is not high on my list of things to do.
I don't need to get into a pissing contest. I am just making my point that I am that sure the car and build sheet are real by offering to bet 5K. If anyone such as Chuck is so absolutely sure that it is a fake I would think they would jump at the chance to make 5K.

[njsteve]

I do love when people quote selections from books written by experts that later prove to be incorrect. One of the best was the Mopar expert books that would consistently state that the nose cones on the Daytonas and Superbirds were made of fiberglass. Absolutely incorrect. They were all steel from the factory. One writer back in 1969 assumed they were glass before ever seeing a real car in person and then every book writer from then on quoted his assumption for the next 30 years even though everyone that owns/or owned one knew better. But you couldn't convince the experts otherwise until you literally rubbed their noses in it.

Hey, does anyone remember a time when no one believed that a 69 Camaro ever came with an aluminum 427?