Collector Car Fraud!!!

[ZL1#17]

WOW, what a great thread. HATS OFF TO BRIAN! Did I say that loud enough? In response to King Midas, and by the way I do agree, fraud is far too common.
King Midas you state:
1) “Expert status is difficult to establish” huh? I know that if I want a Z/28, COPO, or ZL-1 certified all I have to do is call Jerry MacNeish. He is nationally licensed and certified.
2) Dealers can’t hide. I know for a fact, a dealer can loose their license and go to jail if they commit fraud. Most dealers will try to make it right before the case even goes to trial. I have read many instances (including this board) were the dealer took the car back because they knew that they falsely misrepresented the car.
3) Who cares how many times a car changes hands? It’s the seller who represents the car who is solely responsible for delivering that car for what they said it was. I believe the politically correct term is taking responsibility for your actions.
If I buy a Ferrari 250 GTO or some other kind of exotic and I decide to replace the engine or whatever on the car and then decide to sell it as “all original” it is me the seller who is responsible for that sale, not the previous owners. Now, let’s say I bought the Ferrari with out an original part and it was sold to me as “all original”. That does not give me the right to re-sell it as “all original”, or an excuse such as “that’s how I bought it”. AGAIN I APPLAUD BRYAN W. SHOOK, and wish him the best with his new career.

[elcamino72]

First off, thanks for supporting me guys!

To address some of the concerns:

1. I will not have a problem obtaining experts, as stated by other members of this board; there are plenty of guys out there I can qualify in front of a judge as an expert.

2. Dealers can't hide. Sure they may be able to hide some assets, but corporations can be pierced and it is possible to go after the incorporators and any agents or employees. If a client has a civil cause of action against the seller he may also have a criminal cause of action against the seller which could possibly be turned over to the Attorney General for the state we are dealing with.

3. Jurisdiction - The firm I am working for, The Law Offices of Darrell C. Dethlefs, has contacts with attorneys in all 50 states and a networks is being set up to handle these cases no matter where they arise.

We will handle ANY vehicle fraud cases, Ferrari 250's, Mercedes 190SL, 300SL, Z/28, LS6, SS, L89, etc, anything. Even Ford and Mopar products. Fraudulent car appraisals, restoration misrepresentations, car is sold as "all numbers matching", but has a "CE" motor, etc. If a seller claims a car is something that it isn't, its fraud. If a seller or restoration shop is restamping engine blocks, putting them in cars and selling the cars as numbers matching all original, that’s fraud and misrepresentation.

Another thing to think about that we will be handling is inherent diminished value. This is when you purchase a high dollar car; take a Porsche for instance. You paid $100,000 brand new, right afer you purchase it, you have it appraised and it comes in at $95,000 (just because you drove it off the lot). You have it for a week, it has no miles on it and someone hits it. Insurance fixes the car and you get it re-appraised. Now the appraisal comes in at $85,000 just because it was hit. The car looks new, functions as new, but it has had major repairs. The difference between the $95,000 it was worth and the $85,000 it's now worth is an inherent value loss and I'm of the opinion that since your car is supposed to be returned to it's pre-accident condition, but now it's worth $10,000 less. I would like to try one or two of these cases because I believe the insurance company owes you a duty to get the car back to baseline ($95,000) and they should pay you for its inherent loss. If you were dealing with a Ford Focus, who would care, and the inherent loss would be too small to even worry about, but with a high-end car we are talking big dollars.

There is too much fraud in our hobby. Too many cowl tags trading hands on eBay, too many base Camaros being turned into Z28's and sold as original Z28's, etc. It's a wide spread problem and I'm trying to bring some legitimacy back to our hobby.

[69LM1]

How do you plan to handle the cases where they are "selling for a friend" and the info is "only what he/she told me" line, especially that you see on the dealers sites where many of these cars are on consignment? Seems as if the seller blames the dealer and the dealer blames the seller.

Point it case: I sold a LM1 at a auction on the MS gulf coast a few years back. The auctioneer stated MANY untruths about the car, things that I had never stated. Luckily, I was able to catch the winner and set him straight, and as the car was nice, he still wanted it and it worked out great. Could have been bad.

Finally, I know there is probably not much money in it, but what about action against sites like trimtags.com, that started out where you had to produce proof that you owned a car to get that trim tag to now where they will make anything you want no ? asked. That would help alot!

[elcamino72]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you plan to handle the cases where they are "selling for a friend" and the info is "only what he/she told me" line, especially that you see on the dealers sites where many of these cars are on consignment?

[/ QUOTE ]

The seller (owner of the car) is committing fraud by misrepresenting the car so the buyer has a case against the owner of the car. Now the case with consignments; if the consignment seller (person merely selling the car) knows the car is fake and still sells the car as legit, that's fraud and the buyer has a case against him as well.

Now the auction case is a little different, both guys are on the hook, both the auction company and the seller. The seller is on the hook unless he comes clean to the buyer (like you did 69LM1), but if the seller was to stay silient, that's fraud.

[agtw31]

i guess personal injury is a little too competitive for you.

[Donutblue]

Bryan, congrat's on what you plan on undertaking but I think you should disclose a little more on this site as to what this can cost $$ the collector. We all know lawyers get their cake win or lose. You and I know first hand that the target of the lawsuit must have the funds or real property to make this lawsuit worth your victim's efforts, and to be fair about it your victim will look to recover their large legal fees as well. Maybe you should consider a pro-bono case or two just to get your name out there. On another note, victims should be aware that they can probably approach a State Attorney Generals office, they can not only go after the target with civil repriasals but criminal -- and they can go after someone out of state. Additonally, the State AG does not charge you $$$.

[novadude]

Off Topic: Bryan, I live pretty close to your office. I am in Hampden Twp, and I own a '65 Nova SS clone (and I never tell anyone it is a REAL SS! LOL)