69 Z28 w/ P-O-P on Ebay

[Mr70]

Some Sox fans were seen standing in line for Cubs season tickets here this week wearing those decals on their Sox jackets.

[Jonesy]

I have this car in my database. It came out of Minnesota with a real DZ engine in it that had the original stamping of V0501DZ. Now it shows up with POP.

Us Minnesotans are pretty honest people

[Hotrodpaul]

Someone is willing to pay nearly $50,000 for it. Poeple need to educate themselves before laying down that kind of cash. I guess that is why the value of the real original documented Z-28's has gone through the roof.

Paul

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
I have this car in my database. It came out of Minnesota with a real DZ engine in it that had the original stamping of V0501DZ. ....

Good catch Mike. So, I am guessing the "original stamping of V0501DZ" was not represented as the car's original motor, correct? Wonder what VIN was on it. With the internet resources, it is a shame more guys aren't making efforts to reunite engines and cars.

Lynn

[TDW]

Well. The seller has been to this site to read the thread, according to the "ask seller a question".

[Blad Boys Cars]

I am the owner of this car and I would like to go on record as saying that I bought this car out of New Jersey under the impression that this is a z28. If you guys feel that this is a forgery, I would appreciate any help that I could get on finding out the full history of this car. I bought this car from an estate. The gentelman had passed away and his siblings are selling his muscle car collection. This car was in Jersey but the gentelman also had a place in Florida. I have not recieved the POP yet from the gentelmans brother who says that the POP is in Florida. If I do not recieve the POP soon, I feel that I might have to take some sort of legal procedure to correct this situation. I would appreciate any feedback that I can get.

By the way, I am from Ohio and some of us Ohioans are also honest people. I am not in the business to rip people off. I want to make this right and if this car is not the real deal then I apolagize for not having the proper resources for doing the proper homework on this car.

Thanks,

Nick Winblad
937-239-0400

[Jonesy]

Nick

All I can tell you is that I have that car in my database of 69 Camaros. I write down notes about them and log the VIN and cowl tag info. This car at one time was in Minnesota according to my info and had a DZ engine in it that was dated May 10th (V0501DZ). I wish I would have written more notes about the car.

When I read this in your ad: [ QUOTE ]
"You are looking at a all numbers matching 1969 Z28 Camaro. This vehicle is has had a frame off restoration that is about 8 years old. The car is a low mileage car with only 30450 documented miles. This car is a true all numbers matching authentic Z28 with PROTECTOPLATE."

[/ QUOTE ] I would think if there was POP, I would have noted it, but who knows when I got the info from this car.

I never said it wasn't a true z/28, although I have no proof that it is. I never said it wasnt a nice car.
I never said that you werent honest, I think the wording in your ebay auction is a very bold statement. If you bought it as a numbers matching z/28 with POP, the POP information will solve all the mysteries about the car's heritage. POP is also being faked, so I would be carefull with that also.

[Jonesy]

I has been in my database for about 5 years
This was the info I had on it:

1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
37 = coupe body
9 = 1969 model year
L = Los Angeles, CA assembly plant (Van Nuys)
516692 = vehicle serial number sequence

Decode for body number: 223540

01C = Built the Third week of January.
69-12437 = Coupe.
VN = Built in Van Nuys California.
727 = Standard Ivory/Black Bucket Seats.
65-65 = Car Color is Olympic Gold
M537 = internal plant scheduling code.

[Lynn]

Nick:

No one accused you of being dishonest. Hope you understand that. The closest thing I saw to an accusation was the statement made by one poster saying it was unclear whether you or a previous owner changed items on the car.

You can track the title history in a situation like this. While title information is normally confidential, you can make a request under certain circumstances.

In Oklahoma you can obtain title history of a vehicle "For use in connection with any civil, criminal, administrative or arbitral proceeding in any federal, state or local court or agency or before any self-regulatory body, including the service of process, investigation in anticipation of litigation..." The Texas law has a paragraph with the identical wording, so I am guessing both states passed legislation with wording "suggessted" by the Federal privacy laws. Most other states will be the same, or at least similar. I have just recently obtained title histories on several questionable cars in Oklahoma (which takes only a day or two) and am waiting on the history on one car from Texas (which will take 6 to 8 weeks).

Assuming you wish investigate the possibility of fraud in anticipation of litigation, you can start with New Jersey. The title history there will show the previous out of state owner, and you can then back track to that state (presumably Minn., but could have changed hands a couple of other times - who knows).

In investigating actual fraud, I have found most of the previous owners are more than happy to discuss the particulars of the car, and are appalled to find someone has used "their" car (these cars are like kids in a way - even when they are gone, we think of them as "ours") to commit fraud. You would be surprised what you can find out.

Obviously one of those previous owners swapped out the motor, and someone restamped the current motor.

And yes, as you may have guessed, I am an attorney. While I don't beleive in suing everyone who looks cross-eyed at you, I honestly beleive the fraud problem will only subside when the risk outweighs the benefit. The risk in this case is the risk of being sued. I normally don't handle litigation. I practice mainly in the area of Estate Planning. I am however, investigating a case right now that involves a swapped trim tag, which I consider more serious than a restamped engine. Once the necessary evidence is gathered, witnesses lined up etc, I will have no reservation hitting the offending party with a lawsuit. My client is quite anxious on this one. Can't share any more details for fear of hindering my current investigation, but once this one is in the books, you can bet I will share all the details, naming names, so that others can use the info to fight this kind of fraud.

Good luck on your car, both on the sale, and finding out whether it was misrepresented, and, if so, by whom. It is a very nice looking car, and frankly the gold color is kind of refreshing.

Lynn

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
This car at one time was in Minnesota according to my info and had a DZ engine in it that was dated May 10th (V0501DZ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully that was just a typo because V0501DZ is not May 10th. That stamp is May 1st.

May 10th was a Saturday, May 1st was a Thursday. Just for info.


Rick H.