$200K 1969 Z-28

[af1fe]

How much can a car be "fluffed" and still be called a survivor? What is the true definition of "survivor" car? I have heard alot of different explanations lately, and they all are different.

[Mr70]

I personally draw the line at red heater hoses.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

I am not touting the car. Stuart Adams asked if the car was for still for sale. All I did was say yes and give him my e-mail. Is that touting? You've already pulled the car from the cars for sale section of this site. I don't have a problem with that.....and I didn't know about your rule about pricing the car.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Charley Lillard]

"Yes, my Z has twice the mileage but it is twice the car. I will bet my reputation on that! Factory chambered, factory floor mats, 4.10 rear, build sheet and all the original parts are in this car........shocks, exhaust, master cylinder, etc, etc. Anyone, and I mean anyone is free to come by my shop and inspect this car in person. The ink stampings are still on the carb."
I would call that touting. You are free to place your car for sale on this site but put a price on it. I had sent you a private message regarding the ad but you did not respond.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

I stated that information because you were tending to bash the car that I have......."The Barrett-Jackson car has 11000 miles. I think Jerry's had over twice the mileage." Like a 28K mileage car with all original parts intact is a POS survivor compaired to the one sold at BJ? You don't know for certain that the 11K car mileage car is real, and it appears that most clear thinking Camaro hobbyists on this site think that this car had more than maintenance issues.

I never received your private message about selling or posting my car.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Charley Lillard]

Jerry...I sent the private message at 10:43 am yesterday. It is probably still there. You are right. I don't know for certain that the 11K mile car is real but from the looks and history I believe it is. The 11K mile car appears to be what it is, blemishes and all. I would expect your car to have no blemishes. You are in the car business and restore parts etc. If your car had the wrong water pump, I would think you would find the right pump. The 11K mile Z28 has all it's flaws out in plain sight. I have no idea if you had to do anything to your car and I don't really care. I am not bashing your car but you seem determined to bash the auction car. Given the lower miles of the auction car and I believe someone said it had not been titled I would rather have the auction car.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

And as you said before, we will just have to agree to disagree. I do know from the many years of my experience in my business that many dealers who sell cars misrepresent them. Do you know how many restamped Camaro engines I saw at the auction that were represented as "numbers matching"? Many! I see this 80% of the time when traveling to classic car dealers and high-volume sellers/flippers. Honesty and integrity is not what this hobby is about anymore. Unfortunately, it's all about money today! There is a big part of me that wishes these cars were not as valuable as they've become. That would make many of the law suits go away and tend to keep this hobby honest and to the true Camaro lover and not the Camaro investor-seller.

You for example have had the good fortune and luxury of owning several ZL1 Camaros. I will never have that luxury because the value of ZL1's have gone throught the roof. Even if I never get to own one, I do have the teenage memories of seeing these cars in the dealer showroom when they were new (Jerry Govans, AD Anderson, and Sport Chevrolet). I also got to hang out with a couple of locals who raced these cars when they were new.........and those memories are priceless.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Steve Shauger]

Survivor camaros are very rare and desirable. Most unrestored cars have had some form of maintenance performed, although there are a few time capsules. In the Camaro arena there is one program VINTAGE CAMARO that judges and certifies these cars. Our program incorporates four divisions to accomodate the different levels of originality. These cars represent the benchmark by which camaros should be restored to. We have had the pleasure of certifying many ultra low mileage cars from COPOs to grocery getters. They all have a story to tell and much is learned from them and documented. Below I pasted a document that outlines our program and the criteria we use in our program.

VINTAGE CAMARO PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING:


• Encourages the preservation, status, recognition and appreciation of unrestored Camaros

• Offer the hobbyist the opportunity to have their Camaro certified objectively and fairly

• Promotes and adheres to the philosophy that the original car showing wear is preferable to one that is improperly restored

• Vintage Camaro represents a repository of factory correct standards by which the hobby and serious restorers can all benefit

• Vintage Certification identifies a Camaro as having completed a thorough exhausting inspection process, which references factory standards, and at a level as certified by Vintage Camaro

Vintage Certifications levels are divided into four divisions:


• Vintage Legend - Camaros that are 80%-90% unrestored in all reference areas.
• Vintage Legacy - Camaros that are minimally 50% unrestored, in three out of five reference areas.
• Vintage Reference - Camaros that are unrestored in at least
one Vintage Reference Area.
• Camaro Icon - Camaros that have original-unrestored
components disbursed throughout.

Reference Areas: Certification consists of two areas of consideration, Originality (90%) and Preservation (10%). Reference areas are as follows:

• Engine Compartment Area
• Exterior Body
• Interior Body
• Underbody
• Trunk


What are the benefits of Vintage Certification???
• Vintage Camaro is unique, because it provides recognition, value and status to unrestored (survivor) Camaros.

• Provides documentation, and verifies the Camaros pedigree.

• Provides the owner with a detailed listing of correct and incorrect items

• Our goal is to uncover new information and share it with you.


How do I proceed getting my Camaro Certified???

Simply review our rules and guidelines packet. If after reviewing our packet you feel your Camaro meets our criteria, fill out the last page Request for Application and mail it to the address provided at the bottom of the application.

If you have questions,or feel your car qualifies we can be contacted directly, Steve at 631-514-9765 / [email protected] or Brett can be reached at 740-676-4920.


BTW we are in search of a few survivor class camaros. We will be participating at the Camaro Nationals @ Carlisle this June. For further detailed information about our program email me and I will send out our Rules& Guidelines packet with an application.

[BillD]

I have dealt with Jerry M for probably close to 15 years. He has always generously given time to answer questions, give advice and in general help in any way he can. Since he started his business he has rebuilt, replated, restored and modified parts for me. He has located parts for me. He has on occasion purchased parts from me. I have used the books he has written until they have literally fallen apart from being referred to so often. He has given me informal advice on cars or parts I was interested in purchasing. He has done formal pre purchase evaluations and appraisals for me, but only when he thought it warranted taking a further look. His work is excellent and his prices are fair. Most importantly, he is honest. He will tell you what he thinks about something regardless of who owns the car he may be giving you an opinion on or who he may offend. You ask for his opinion and you get his honest opinion, and I believe that to be a rare quality. You can choose to agree with his opinion or agree to disagree as has been previously stated.

[PaulK]

Ha Ha HA HAHAHAHA
I see, we think much alike Captain, you and I.
GOOD