69 Z28 RS JL8 Crossram car listed at BJ auction

[GRB]

I wouldn't put a lot on money in a car that I wouldn't be happy with for a long, long time. My 02 ZL1 will not be worth anywhere near what I will have in it until I am long gone. If ever. But, I love the late model SS body style and need to see one everyday. I guess that's why I have a black, 1LE SS on a lift in my garage. I like to drive it but even if I didn't I would still have to have it.

The supercharged C5R 427 ZL1 will be virtually useless on the street but I still want it. It's kind of like looking under the hood of a hemi. If someone has to ask why you are glass eyed, mesmerized and drooling after an hour or so don't even bother trying to explain it to them.

[Canucklehead]

Jay Leno qoute "collect what brings you happiness"

In collecting (coins, guns, cars, etc.) if you are in it for the money then eventually you will lose and lose big...I think the current prices and what sold for big money at B/J (the tri-fives, vintage t-birds, Shelby's, 'vettes, some rods, and hemis) represent what the "non-enthuiast" feels are collectibles. These are the cars that the average lay person thinks about when you mention "collector car." These cars have always been collectible and sought after. They aren't the "envogue" cars..ala "supercars" (no disrespect to anyone...) or specualtive cars. These are the cars that have ALWAYS brought good money. The JL8 cars, crossrams, Motions, etc. are all nice cars, but the hobby isn't really driven too much by niche pricing...It is usually driven and more importantly substained by what the "average joe" thinks. Ask your average car collector or enthusiast what type of Camaro they liek and most will say a "Z28" not a Yenko or Motion, ask an enthusiast to pick a Corvette and a lot will say a "split window"..not a 1 of 10 Motion car. These speciality cars are always going to be desirable and collectible, but they are a lot more volatile to pricing swings. I have never been into the heavily specualated cars, having concertrated on owning more "generic" cars..L78's, Z's, LS6's, 440x6, etc. I think these cars won't hurt a buyer nearly as much as the "supercars" (Yenkos, hemis, Motions, etc.) as evidence by the fact the Z's were bringing almost 2/3rds of what COPO's were. The plain fact of the matter is that it is the websites like this (a great site and one which there is a wealth of info, but also one which has largely been responsible for people asking 200k for a COPO with stripes..) that have over inflated certain cars and as collectors and specualtors bail out these will be the cars that get hit the hardest. I for one hope the bubble burst and burst big.. Just my opinion.

[gemleeus]

remember what site you are posting to, the "supercar" registry. this is what these folks are into, although we love the other muscle also. the bubble may burst one day, just say goodbye to all the fine cars we are seeing for sale today they will be tucked away and not seen for sale again until that bubble reinflates, then 10 ,or 20 years down the road you can imagine the prices they'll bring then

I'm well aware of the website I'm posting to...I am only pointing out what a lot of people already know..When a group hypes a certain marque and the cars are sold amongst themselves, thereby creating a "ghost" market sooner or later the bubble burst, and the cars come back to what the actual value is. There are a lot of very knowledgable people here, but conversely there are a lot of the same people that for the last 3 years have been hyping the Yenkos, COPO's, and the like and artifically inflating the market. If the market wasn't inflated then there wouldn't be discussion of collectors having to buy their car back at auction. Case in point the blue/RS Z..I have not personally seen the car, but have no doubt it is a superb car..Is it worth more than what the seller had to pay to buy it back. IMHO no..if it was then there wouldn't have been a need to buy it back in the first place. The mainstream would have recognized the value and the car would have sold. Especially given that the auction draws people from all over the world, and is well regard (rightly or wrongly) as the premier auction for classic cars. If we agree that the rarer, higher horepower cars are always going to be collectible at what point do we take into account the people that most likely will substain their prices not buying anymore. Do you guys really feel that the musclecar as we define it will be collectible in 20 years and more importantly will the rate of appreciation be on par with the time factor? This is not only a problem here but a problem elsewhere in the hobby as well.

[gemleeus]

these cars as well as others have been creeping in price every year. the yenkos, copos, motions, zl1s and on and on deserve "hyping" these are special automobiles as we all know the reasons behind what makes these cars what they are. this type of thing goes on in every car maker "high end" market, you have it in porsche, ferrari, corvette, etc. etc. no one is artifically inflating any markets, the simple facts are those that were young in that era that could only dream of those cars then, are now well to do and are purchasing that car they always held dear in thier hearts as a young boy growing up irregardless of price, thats whats driving the market, people are richer today, lots of money been made in the last 20 years, why? the world wide web is a major contributing factor. the blue jl8 z had some issues, i'm not saying the bj auction is a gauge or anything, its an auction, its design is to get the heart pumping, as i'm sure everyones aware. i would enjoy telling that i bought it at scottsdale to my friends. yes i think the musclecar as we define it will always be collectible, its a day gone buy never to return again in the form it was back then,your major manufactorers are all trying to duplicate it today, and doing a good job doing it imo.

[GRB]

Here's another $.02 worth. SOME old cars are like beachfront property. They ain't and can't make any more. Which of the old ones are BF and which are non-commercial farm property??? We all have our opinions on that and I think we would all agree on certain American cars; most hemis, ZL1s, COPOs, Cobras, Shelbys, Yenkos etc. And, which of the current muscle cars, if any, will reach collector status in the future? Who knows how market forces, fuel prices and even political and cultural shifts will effect the mkt. in 15-20 years?

[Belair62]

Greg..interesting observations and opinions....More the view of someone who would rather not have Yenkos/COPO cars and thats great...As the value of the much rarer and sought after Supercars go...so goes the Z28's the LS6's,L78,440 +6,etc.

[Dave Rifkin]

[ QUOTE ]
Greg..interesting observations and opinions....More the view of someone who would rather not have Yenkos/COPO cars and thats great...As the value of the much rarer and sought after Supercars go...so goes the Z28's the LS6's,L78,440 +6,etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
In addition to the escalating prices that the "lesser" musclecars will experience as the more sought after cars move out of the reach of most people I think that the clone cars will become more accepted by the collector family. I know I've always dreamed of owning a 1969 GT-500 like my parents owned when I was a kid but, since that will never happen unless I win the lottery, I might have to settle for owning a clone of that car. Even building a clone of your dream car is no cheap proposition which is why I think they will bring some big bucks once all of the real deal "supercars" are all locked up in the museums and collections never to be seen or driven again. (That will be a sad day indeed when these cars are looked upon as too valuable to enjoy).

[camarojoe]

I heard an orange 69 Yenko Camaro "clone" sold for nearly 90K at B-J this weekend.