Petition GM for all GM car info ???

[njsteve]

Jim is quite correct, as the document falls under the "Business Records" exception to the hearsay rule. If someone was to sue a prior seller for a bogus car, they would simply place the PHS sheet into evidence as it is an official record of GM. No one at GM gets called as a party to the lawsuit.

[hugger_69]

Steve,

I can appreciate that, but here is where my point of reference lays. If GM does in fact have records of the builds where they have claimed along that they don't, doesn't that open them up to the following suit. A guy files claim against GM stating that GM could have released these documents years earlier and prevented him from buying a car that he thought was a real Copo? Couldn't they argue that had GM released that info years earlier that it could very well have prevented a lot of misrepresented deals. Doesn't this give merit to a lawsuit against GM?

[Steve Shauger]

That point is only valid if in fact they have the records. No one has gone on record to say the absolutely have the records. Just alot of "seems like" or "believe they have". Just speculation at this point...

[Mr70]

Bingo!
And most likely why they are "unknowingly" discarding those records everyday.

[Mark_C]

It's probably also only valid if this person can prove that they requested the info from GM and was told that the records don't exist. If the car was bought from a private person and contains a sold "as is" clause then there is really no recourse the seller can always claim that the conversion was done by someone previous to them as well. It's buyer beware, if you don't do your homework your out the dough.

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Steve,

I can appreciate that, but here is where my point of reference lays. If GM does in fact have records of the builds where they have claimed along that they don't, doesn't that open them up to the following suit. A guy files claim against GM stating that GM could have released these documents years earlier and prevented him from buying a car that he thought was a real Copo? Couldn't they argue that had GM released that info years earlier that it could very well have prevented a lot of misrepresented deals. Doesn't this give merit to a lawsuit against GM?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it would be thrown out. Unfortunately in our wonderfully litigious society most people seem to believe the following mantra: "It's never my fault, who can I sue?". You cant sue GM for not preventing you from getting ripped off. The responsibility is on the buyer, absent total misrepresentation, to verify what he's got. Didnt we all see the Brady Bunch episode on "Caveat Emptor"? where Greg buys the 57 Chevy???? for $350 and gets ripped off.

I equate these lawsuits to the "Wrongful Life" lawsuits. You're probably familiar with "Wrongful Death" where someone rightfully sues another person, like a drunk driver for killing their family member. Well, in wrongful life lawsuits, they sue the doctor for allowing their "defective" child to be born claiming: if I had known the child would have had this defect, I would have aborted him. You have people suing for all sorts of defects like brain damage, birth defects, attention deficit disorder, failure to clean up their rooms, etc. But who's to blame? Are you really going to try to make a doctor pay for letting your child exist? .....Are you going to make GM pay for letting you buy a "birth defective" car? And where does it stop? Do you sue for the car having the wrong shade of green on it now, versus what is was built with? Rallye green vs. British racing Green?

Just thought I'd start y'all on a nice slippery slope.

[Hylton]

All this lawsuit talk is a red herring as Steve has indicated. Larry, I will send you Jim's email addy if you do not have it already.

Obviously Larry cannot run this by himself. We are going to have to 'divide and conquer'. Anyone volunteering to be part of this drive should contact Larry and identify any organizations/clubs/memberships/people you have influence with so that you can help get members of said org. 'signed up'.

Anyone with influence in publications (you know who you are), and television are also incouraged to volunteer to take part.

If you don't have any relationship with any orgs, there will still be plenty of work to be shared here so your help will still be appreciated.

As Larry said, one year of actively recruiting signatures can have positive results but for the people involved with organizing this, a year can go by very quickly. The sooner we get going, the better.

[Pantera]

Guys I have had a ton of postive response. I can only be the instigator of the final result this may have. There is no way that I can canvas the entire country with out help.

Please any of you out there that are able to help collect signatures contact me by email. These will need to be collected in black ink, on one standard form, on white paper at every carshow, autorace, club meeting, and any other "COLLECTOR CAR" event that anybody can think of this upcoming year. I will be at BJ with one and try to collect all that I can there.

Just remember, I am just a one man band and I can't be everywhere. If this is to be done right, I will have to have hundreds of helpers to collect these around the country and then in Dec of '05, mail them to me.

It is most important that we do not get hundreds of Bogus or duplicate signatures, as that would water down the impact that It would have. We must deal straight with GM to inpress the powers that be, to release the records. I can only hope that they get behind this with the same enthusam that most of us on this forum have.

It only takes one GM person in the right place to feel we have merrit with our request, to open the right door and make this happen. I am sure that Jim M. has a very interesting slant on why this is not happened so far. I can only hope this may be of a help, for it to come to fruitation after all the work he has done. If he is reading this, I hope he will contact me with his thoughts and if anyone has his email address please send it to me.


To all of you reading this, Please keep the ideas coming. Good or bad you just never know where we may come up with that winning combination. I never finished High School so I will be making sure that the final wording is run by a much more learned person than I am. The final form should be as perfect as it can be. I hope to have the basic form ready to distribute, by the 15th of Jan.

Thanks for all the encouragment, help and especially the good ideas.

Pantera