Judges

[StealthBird]

Well, I guess if the old road tests don't hold much weight, I would place the validity of the Pure Stocks races FAR lower when looking at how these cars originally stacked up to each other. The mega-buck, professionally built, flyweight rotating assembly cars we see today, with scienced-out suspensions and hundreds of hours of dyno time, are a far cry from how these cars ran in their day.

The differences between the 70 RAIII and 70 455 are marginal at best. Minor head differences (same flow, different cc's, similar compression), 068 cam (on M/T 455), same intake, etc. For my money, I'll go with the 55 extra cubes and more torque of the 455.

For pure power at the Pure Stocks, I'd go with a Studebaker.

[tjs44]

the only rub IMHO is hooking up the 455s with 70 vintage tires.In a straight out drag race showroom stock with a man trans the RA III MAY have a advantage.Auto cars 50-50.With some suspension work and wide sticky tires I go with the 455.Tom

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
I would place the validity of the Pure Stocks races FAR lower when looking at how these cars originally stacked up to each other. The mega-buck, professionally built, flyweight rotating assembly cars we see today, with scienced-out suspensions and hundreds of hours of dyno time, are a far cry from how these cars ran in their day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't take this the wrong way, Mike, but I gotta object! I was the 3rd quickest car on elimination day in Stanton this fall (12.3s @ 113+) and it's built NOTHING like you describe. Our rotating assembly is the original '69 parts except for the pistons, and my pushrods are the only non-GM stuff up top. Hours of dyno time? I wish!! Trick suspension? I wouldn't exactly call a pair of leaf spring clamps "trick"! And I just took a quick peak at this fall's results...12 of the 13 quickest cars in Stanton were "Certified Stock" cars meaning they were tore down prior to the event and thoroughly measured/inspected. The only car in the top 13 this fall that wasn't "Certified Stock"...a black '68 RAII 'Bird (I believe Mino's old car). Now, I'm not insinuating anything about that car, but the other 12 cars have been torn down & documented in magazines the same as Mino's car. Believe me, when I started running our Camaro in the class in '99 I was running low 13s and said there's NO WAY any of those other cars should run quicker than that! I mean, I was in a Yenko Camaro! Needless to say, I was taught a lesson REALLY quickly! But over the years, I've learned the value of "careful assembly, careful blueprinting, and attention to detail". It actually IS important to sweat the details!

[StealthBird]

Rob, I think we missed 4th gear in this discussion! I wasn't ragging on any of the Pure Stock Certified guys, a lot of work went into those cars. I said that the way the cars run TODAY do not reflect how they ran back THEN.

Today, maximizing them through matching the chamber cc's, shimming valve springs, jetting the carb, ignition curve kits, leaf spring clamps, loosening up the sway bar bolts, factory appearing front shocks that are soft (90/10), filling your spare tire with water (my personal favorite) for more traction, high flow mufflers, 2.5" exhaust, X-pipes, K&N filters, etc., are all ways to make an old car run faster, and shows the potential of that car, but not representative of how they ran when new. I believe all of these things are legal under Certified Stock.

Since the shortblocks aren't torn down, it makes you wonder if anyone is running aluminum connecting rods, lightweight race cranks, and lightened wrist pins?

As for dyno time, I have read in several posts both here an on the Buick V8 site where people have said "they're hitting the dyno to test their new combo." Not exactly backyard mechanics, but if you have the means, you may as well use it!

But (and that's a big butt) I definately ain't arguing! As you know, I am a huge fan of "stealth" technology, and I think the Pure Stocks are great! My point is that the et's and speeds being generated by the Pure Stock cars today (or Certified Stock) are not representative of what these cars ran when they were new, or heck, even what these cars ran in the Pure Stocks 5 years ago!

Could you imagine a car magazine back in 1970 taking a brand new LS6 Chevelle from Chevrolet, and running 12.40's? On stock rubber? With factory closed exhaust? Or how about explaining to another car magazine that the 1970 Oldsmobile W-31 that they tested last month, which ran impressive 14.60's, somehow managed to run 12.8's today, and embarrass a whole slew of 426 Hemi cars?

I noticed, when reviewing the Pure Stock results, that the top two cars ran over 116 mph, and no one below them even ran 115, or 114 mph! These guys are making some serious power. But I also noticed your Yenko is 200 pounds heavier than Pete Simpson's COPO. Both cars are automatics, so how does Pete shave that much weight off a 69 Camaro? If your Yenko weighed what his car weighed, you'd be fightin' for the #1 spot!

If we should move this discussion to another thread, please let me know.

[Steve_Hoog]

Mike did you build your 69 bird somewhat after the mule you talked about, or is that actually it?

Another pic courtesy of Andy:

[Steve_Hoog]

In the early 90's a GTOAA member interviewed an assembly line worker that had actually built GTO's, I'm going to start dropping stuff from that interview.

[gtaa9]

Its rare to hear from a person that actually put the GTO's together on the line it'll be interesting to see what information this person has about the GTO's.

[Steve_Hoog]

It's over on the other thread..... IV/V continuation.

I made a boo boo posting that in this thread.

[Steve_Hoog]

I was just going through my last mag that Andy sent and wow, coverage on the Pure Stock Drags 99. Some VERY nice cars and impressive times!!! Loved to see Paul Glasgo's Magnum 400 cranking some 12's. And then his brother does a low 13 in a 455HO, right in line with this thread I'd say.

I too don't think there is a need to compare these drags to cars off the assembly line in 1969, but the drags get top rating with me. And I cheer all that do it..

[Pantera]

If you will think back to those early days in the late 60's, that is why Joel Rosen the owner of Motion was so succesful, because he had a dyno at his disposal and very few back then did. With one he could ferret out how to do the little things to go fast.

He also got a lot of help from those in the right places at the factory. It has taken a few years but everybody has just caught up with the top guns of the past. Now days you can find a dyno in just about every town of any size.

I don't know about you but I have seen plenty of guys over the years that out "Tricked" themselves with add on speed equiptment that they had no way to properly tune and set up right.

Blueprinting a stock motor was just not done back then. It has taken all these years for the technogly to come as far forward as it has. Remember a dual line Holly was something new and most guys had been using AFB's, single line Hollys or Rochester Q-jet carbs.

Et's are bound to keep droping with the interest there is in it and the lack of new cars to interest guys of our era.

Nothing wrong with the Ricer's that are going as fast and faster than hell these days. I still miss my '85 CRX si that I used to suprise some late model muscle cars with.


Pantera