Judges

[Steve_Hoog]

ANDY M sent me some cool magazines, this was in one of them:

[Steve_Hoog]

From Andy again:

[supergonzo]

"Bottom line is that the Pontiacs with a RA 4 will run almost dead even with an LS-6,Which was rated 80 horsepower stronger,and had 54 cubic inches more!!!Why couldn,t Pontiac have built a 455 cid,11.1,Ram Air 4 engine in a 70 GTO????? That would have been sweet"


BINGO, Thank You. John

[Steve_Hoog]

I'll tell you why, it's because the idiots at GM wouldn't let John Delorean spread his wings. GM has always held back Pontiac.

[supergonzo]

I agree Chevrolet was always considered, the favored division, this is why Pontiac had lots of difficulty, with stuff they wanted to build and cars they wanted produced. They even promoted Delorean to get him to help the other divisions, even though he was NOT very well liked.

Well nothing we can do about it now. I think it has been shown that Pontiac built some of the coolest and fastest street machines of the day. Without the 64' Pontiac GTO sneaking in under the radar, we all might have been driving 289 Mustangs,6 cyl Chevy II's or worse yet Valiants.

[Steve_Hoog]

289

[StealthBird]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll tell you why, it's because the idiots at GM wouldn't let John Delorean spread his wings. GM has always held back Pontiac.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there were several reasons that a 455 RAIV wasn't built in 1970. The engineering department had a great deal invested in the RAV platform, in both the 303 and 400 versions, and development on the 455 was stifled. The cost of RAV tooling, from the rods to the heads (especially the crank), was significant. In truth, both the engineers and DeLorean felt the 400 RAIV was enough, and they wanted to concentrate on the RAV, the just introduced 69 Trans Am, 69 Judge, the new developement of the 1970 Firebirds, and especially the 69 Grand Prix, the car DeLorean was most fond of. The 455, with standard d-port heads, steel intake, and mild cam, would be used for torque to push the GP and their full-sized cars, and an option for the GTO.

Then in early 1970, the unthinkable happened. John DeLorean was promoted to General Manager of Chevrolet. Pete McDonald took over for DeLorean, and all of the back-door methods that DeLorean employed to get things done came to an immediate halt. Red tape and new emissions requirements were already on the table for 1971, and the new upper management wondered why they would release a RAV tunnel port engine when they already had the 455 in their arsenal. The RAV project was immediately terminated. In order to offset the costs of the RAV project as well as the tooling for the RAIV, the Pontiac Engineers continued work on a low compresion version of the RAIV for 1971, using the RAIV heads and intake as a platform (this became the 455 H.O.). 1970 was a turbulent year at Pontiac. The engineers used to go directly to DeLorean for approval, but now that bond was broken, and they had to communicate with bean counters.

Sidenote : There was a mule car developed by Pontiac Engineering in late 1969. It was a 69 Firebird with a 455, RAIV heads, and oddly enough, an old 66 tri-power setup (for visual impact). This proved to be a wicked combo on the street, and it saw some use on Woodward Avenue. The engineering department called it a 455 H.O., but as we know, the actual 1970 455 H.O. put into production in 1970 was more of a traditional Pontiac 455 with a few goodies added, not the fire-breathing 455 with RAIV heads and cam that the engineering department developed for their mule car.

[Steve_Hoog]

Orange is my favorite color, and on a 69 Firebird you just can't beat it.

[Mr70]

From the 1/05 issue of MCE.
They asked Marty Schorr: "Did you ever get to sneak a peak at some interesting high performance hardware or cars that never made it into production?"

MS:"The Pontiac Ram Air V is a good example,because there were plenty of Ram Air V cars running around at the Milford proving grounds,and I drove them there."

[Steve_Hoog]

Oh no no no Mr. Schorr can't say that, because those cars didn't exist without PHS documentation.