1969 Z11 Camaro Convertible Pace Car Wrecked Shell

[rpoz11]

No, and I think the direction this thread was intended for was on the interchanging of VIN/Trim Tags to the new reproduction shells...No?

[Mark_C]

It's not illegal

USC 18 Section 511

CITE-

18 USC Sec. 511 01/06/03

-EXPCITE-

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I - CRIMES

CHAPTER 25 - COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY
Here it is for those not wanting to click the link above.

Sec. 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers

-STATUTE-

(a) A person who -

(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part;

or

(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years,
or both.

(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).

(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection
are -

(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;

(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;

(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;

and

(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by -

(i) the owner or his authorized agent;

(ii) applicable State or local law; or

(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

(c) As used in this section, the term -

(1) ''identification number'' means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;

(2) ''motor vehicle'' has the meaning given that term in section 32101 of title 49;

(3) ''motor vehicle demolisher'' means a person, including any motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part;

(4) ''motor vehicle scrap processor'' means a person -

(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap for recycling;

(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process metallic scrap into prepared grades; and

(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling; but such term does not include any activity of any such person relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.

(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term ''tampers with'' includes covering a program decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for the purpose of obstructing its visibility.

[rpoz11]

Mr. Lillard, I seem to tend to think your discussions for this site lean toward the Historical aspects of the Camaro itsself; otherwise I dont think Clary would have started all this. I am more for the Historical view and preservation of the cars we have! So, with that in mind, I believe that the Shell's are of no value and I care not to see one of these shell's be retrofitted for the purpose of keeping a PaceCar, for example with this thread, alive. That is a touchy point though with all the GoodMark Items available as well, so this can be contardictory. So, I like Mark C.'s research that he has provided. Can we preserve a car as a time capsule, maybe..most likely no. This PaceCar deserves to be fixed and brought back..but as an overseas shell?? ...BTW< this thing really got the squish done to it...

[rpoz11]

Other pic he had...

[rpoz11]

I goofed on my pic selection...sorry! Can Mr. Clary please omit my duplicate pic I accidentally inserted...Thanx!

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not illegal

[/ QUOTE ]

What is illegal under 18 USC 511 would be to take the VIN from that hulk and put it on one of those new repro bodies, no matter the reason. I am very familiar with this statute. Under 511 (a) (1) if you remove it for an illegal purpose you are committing the crime. Under 511 2 (B) "reasonably necessary for repair" does not include placing the VIN on another body. Under 511 (C) it doesn't work either: "a person who restores or replaces an identification number in accordance with applicable State law." I have yet to find any State laws that authorize VIN tag swapping to another car body. And, as we all learned in the Federal Courts class at law school, in the absence of a State statute directly on point, the Federal statute will be deemed the supreme authority on the subject. (The Supremacy Clause)

[BARN FIND]

Legally...how much of the car do you have to transfer (by percent or specific parts) to be legal?

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Legally...how much of the car do you have to transfer (by percent or specific parts) to be legal?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can sell any or all of the car and it's not a problem. Most State laws make it a crime to sell a VIN tag though, even with an accompanying title. The crime comes into play when you take the tag from one vehicle and place it on another. Heck, you can even take the VIN tag of one of those infamous missing ZL-1s and dance in the streets with it but if you try to rivet it onto another car it then becomes a Federal Felony. The added bonus (to the Feds) is that the car is now deemed "contraband" and will be seized. Once declared contraband it cannot be sold at one of those government auctions either. It usually gets used as a government car in some manner or another or is crushed..... I can just see it now, Efram Zimblist, Jr. cruising up to FBI headquarters in his seized, rebodied 69 ZL1.

[olredalert]

--------While Im sure you are correct in what you have stated about the legalities, I wonder at what point one considers the sheet metal that has been stamped out and then welded together a car. I know this is wierd, but it seems somewhat similar to the point at which a fetus is deemed life. I know, I said it was wierd! Hope this isnt another Roe-VS-Wade on a smaller, less important scale, but I dont consider a bare complete body a car, although others might...........Bill S

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
--------While Im sure you are correct in what you have stated about the legalities, I wonder at what point one considers the sheet metal that has been stamped out and then welded together a car.

[/ QUOTE ]

The issue is not about the car body, it's about placing a VIN tag from another car on that body. THAT is what is illegal. (Not withstanding any civil copyright issues GM may have with the trademarked design of the 69 Camaro)

I think Dynacorn could avoid all legal problems by simply classifying their "item" as a 1/1 scale model of a 69 Camaro shell. They could put a Monogram or Revell label on the crate and then sell them through local hobby shops. It would be just another collectors item like Johnny Lightenings or Hotwheels...only much bigger!