Is this a War or not? Something to think about?

[WILMASBOYL78]

Right on the money. If Carter had acted decisively 25 years ago we would be in a different movie today. Take the battle to those who would eliminate our way of life. Better to fight them in the desert than on the streets of our home towns. Freedom is not free you have to pay for it, and sometimes that means people die. For that I am truly sad and my heart goes out to the families who have made the ultimate sacrifice. God bless our troops!

[Charley Lillard]

It makes me wonder what it is that makes them hate us so much. Their acts are based on a very deep hatred. We learned in Vietnam that ways of war have changed and it is very hard to even find the enemy. If we ever truly want it to end I think we need to find out why we are hated so much and see if there is something we can do to end that hatred. It only takes a couple pissed off terrorists to do the damage, so defeating a country still won't solve things.

[Belair62]

Probably because we have always supported Israel...if I were the Pres I would just call up Israel and ask them to bring me Bin ladens head...I bet it would be UPS'ed within 24hrs.

[tom406]

The history is compelling, and true enough-we fall into complacency easily. If we were guiding our military with clear focus through Afghanistan, trying to find Bin Laden, fighting new battles as we came to unfriendly borders, I would agree with you.

But we're not. We've taken on a poorly conceived, minimally planned and funded war to Iraq. Most high school social studies teachers knew that Saddam was true only to Saddam, and held no real appeal or support for Muslim zealots. He was a threat to his people to be sure, and our country was largely responsible for putting him into power, but this was the wrong time to put him to bed.

Bush seems like a nice enough guy, and his performance directly following 9/11 was truly grand. But he likes to see the world in simple terms, and he's surrounded himself with arrogant, self righteous vampires.

As for the future of my children, I worry just as much about the legacy of this administration on them as I do the Muslim fundamentalist movement. All this government secrecy, holding people for YEARS without trial, or even access to lawyers or family members is unbelievable to me. Mostly I worry about an endless stream of half a$$ed military actions across the Middle East for the next 20 years which will deplete our military to the point where they will undoubtedly be forced to draft my kids to try and keep the oil flowing.

Kerry's no ideal candidate, but everyone who appears to be under him is an improvement in my mind. I don't see a good outcome with the current administration, and I feel we need to try something different, so I'll be voting accordingly. I hope others do too.....

[Norm reynolds]

Right on Tom This is a different can of war and you cannot win with ground troops
And yes we went to war with the wrong people it seem that Bush forgot about Bin laden
As Charley said defeating them will not solve a thing you would think we learned form Vietnam I have never voted in my life but I will this year Kerry is not my ideal chose but if feel Bush has totally made a mess of things Its sad to think that he thinks he is wining the war on terror when things in Iraq is getting worse Iraq is starting to look more like Vietnam all over again God help us if Bush is aloud four more years

[Kim_Howie]

Tom, Check Kerry's voting record before you bash Bush. Anybody that votes it's OK !! to spit on the the Flag. I have a problem with...........................

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]

We've taken on a poorly conceived, minimally planned and funded war to Iraq. Most high school social studies teachers knew that Saddam was true only to Saddam, and held no real appeal or support for Muslim zealots. He was a threat to his people to be sure, and our country was largely responsible for putting him into power, but this was the wrong time to put him to bed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Tom's statement says it all. (IMHO)
Saddam was out for Saddam.
As brutal a dictator he was, I think we are seeing, first hand, the reasons he ruled like he did.
He had to squash insurgents and instill fear into the masses.
Why?
Because it's the only thing they understand.

Do you think we should continue this madness of sending our bright young guys into towns and going door-to-door?
We could do this for decades and they'd still be killing our kids. Remember that N/ Vietnam fought the French for years before we showed-up. Small countries have figured out that we will back off if we sustain enough losses over a long term war in which it's hard for us to identify the true enemy.

I shudder to think of what a young US Marine goes through in the course of his/her day when EVERY person on the street is his/her potential killer.

We should train their security forces, help them with their Jan. elections and then high-tail it outa there forever!


I'm one of those who feels it's time to lock-down our borders and start pulling our troops off foreign soil. I also believe we need to trim our foreign aid WAY down. Canada seems to be doing very well (except for the border situation). I say we follow that philosophy.

N. Korea wants us out, Germany wants us gone. There are many others. Let's give 'em what they want and pull out. Bring our kids home and make it REAL hard to get into the US.

Just my $.02

Mac

[Pantera]

[ QUOTE ]
N. Korea wants us out, Germany wants us gone. There are many others. Let's give 'em what they want and pull out. Bring our kids home and make it REAL hard to get into the US.

Just my $.02

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with that whole heartly. I would like to ad one thought to this and there are some great thoughts from you guys on this subject.

I agree we will never see a end of this type of war. The best and only chance we have is education and to set an example of freedom for all to see. We do a pretty good job so far of showing what freedom really is. If we can stay long enough in Irag for the little people there to get a first hand view of freedom in action then perhaps it will do the same as it did in this country and they will seek it for themselves. The best teacher of anything is by example and offering your hand out to those that are down.

Bush or Kerry? I think that they are just men and as such will do what they think best. Will we agree with what they do? Usually not and then sometimes we do. Think back and you will see that it has always been the same with every president. I have been watching them for about 50 years now and nobody ever seems to agree with what the pres does. All we can hope for is one that does something postive. I like a man that does what he thinks will work. The mark of a real man is one that admidts it and trys to correct what he did wrong.

John F Kennedy was just running when I was old enough to start to understand what the process was. Since then we have loved some of them and hated the rest. such is life. I even liked Nixion. But at least he DID something good for all mankind. So this year will be the hardest election for me. I like each of them. I really do.


I would rather go back to searching out the owner of my '69 vette when it was new. So best of luck to them both. I am sure the world will continue tomorrow. Just wait and see..!

[Salvatore]

I agree Belair! We have stopped Israel on many occasions from settling the Middle East years ago. I don't always approve of their tactics, but you have to get it done. It just never seems to end. I have a son who was in Germany for 8 mths. about a year ago. They don't like us either. Hopefully they will leave his company alone for now. Sam

[Jeff H]

Yup, it's all about hatred. We need to find out what makes these people hate us so much. But most of these people cannot be reasoned with so we also have to learn how to deal with them. I don't think anyone has the real answer at this point in time.