1970 Ls6 Convertible

Charley,

I think we can all agree that personal knowledge of a particular car might affect your view to buy or not. However what if you go to sell that car, to say someone that has no prior knowledge of it. Now I know you are well respected in the hobby, but I don't think someones' level of respect should be what we base purchases on...I would bet if you bought the car and then went to sell it, you would ask top dollar..Therefore someone paying top dollar should expect to get a "no excuses" car...No having to second guess, no explaining to others..No having to buy a "story"..instead they should pay top dollar based on the idea that the car validates itself. Im my opinion the only way today with the fraud out there is to buy a car with factory docs..I have never really spoken to Kevin S., but from what I understand he will only buy a car that has factory paper...is it because he only finds those cars interesting..doubtful..I would guess (Kevin please step in here.. that it is to protect his investments..I used to collect WWII US and German martial weapons, and the one thing that was always stressed by other collectors to me, (especially when starting out) was buy the gun..not the story. It is always better to buy a car with paperwork and documents then without..A documented car with unquestionable docs will always bring more money than a similar non-documented car regardless of "owner" history or who is sellling...

[camarojoe]

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I don't think someones' level of respect should be what we base purchases on...

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Personally, I'd rather buy a car based on my respect of the people who know the car and have owned it, than from someone I'm not sure I trust but has "alot of paperwork" with the car. Earlier, When you were inquiring about a camaro you had prior knowledge of, and felt the need to "go public" with the info, did you have paperwork to back up your claims? No, but you had the word of people you knew and trusted, who had owned, and were associated with the car...and based your judgement on that. I really don't see how that's any different than buying a car based on the respect and knowledge of the car's history from previous owners. I always have looked at paperwork as being an added "bonus" to a good car, but just as I've seen legit cars without papers, I've also seen alot of questionable cars that had stacks of it. I'm sure you have too. JMO.

Point taken..Keep in mind though the Yenko post was after research and talking to others that I do repsect, AND it wasn't anything other than relaying a known history....If you look "they" are referenced as the ones that mentioned it appeared to be a rebody..Not me..

"I made a few inquires here and after a few discussions located the car. The current owner has had the car about 1 year, and after talking to him knows the "history" on his car. I have also talked to a few other people that know the car and they feel comfortable that the car was a "firewall back rebody." It is still a bonafide Yenko VIN, just not an original sheetmetal car. "


I merely relayed the info and took the "heat" for telling the facts...Think of this..since I made the info "public" let's say someone goes to buy the car...should they automatically "right it off??" NO..they should read what what said, and allow the car to "tell" them what is the correct answer basedon their own views....then they make their own mind up as to whether to buy...

All I did there was post facts..whether others choose to believe them is another story..Some believe Oswald shot Kennedy...My training at MTU and trying to duplicate the act tells me otherwise...It is up to the individual to figure out which they believe..Same with these cars..Given the situation I'll consider who the owner is, but I won't buy for that reason alone...I'll buy based on the documentation that supports the car..

[camarojoe]

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Point taken..Keep in mind though the Yenko post was after research and talking to others that I do repsect

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My point exactly.

[yountto]

Simply put FACTORY docs stand the test of time to any buyer any time,heresay and opinions need to be rehashed everytime an undocumented car sells to a new owner.If the new owner has a different circle of friends than the last,the doubt gets harder to swallow.....Buying a car solely based on the owner history is absurd...wealthy and respectable guys make mistakes too...The only thing is they get to bail out of thier mistakes when the undocumented car sits next to 4 documented shiny six figure cars....An undocumented COPO in a showroom of 2 million worth of cars versus the same car from "Cletus" in virginia..whos gonna be ridiculed,and which ones gonna sell first???????

[Charley Lillard]

"An undocumented COPO in a showroom of 2 million worth of cars versus the same car from "Cletus" in virginia..whos gonna be ridiculed,and which ones gonna sell first???????"... What makes you think Cletus is gonna be ridiculed ? And why are you bidding on a car with no paperwork ?

[yountto]

I would buy the car if its real or not for my bid price....

[camarojoe]

Hey I know Cletus.. and he's as honest as the day is long.

This argument could go on forever... as i think Jeff H put it... each situation and each buyer is different. What is essential for one person might not mean squat to the next, and vice versa. Some valid points have been made on both sides of the fence.

[Charley Lillard]

" and the one thing that was always stressed by other collectors to me, (especially when starting out) was buy the gun..not the story".... I consider the Black RS car the Gun... Paperwork would be nice but not imperative on that car. As I said earlier, each car has its own circumstances. Yes paperwork is great but sometimes the cars speak for themselves. The RS COPO discussed here is schedualed for a restoration where I'm sure there will be many pics taken of it in its current condition and as it is coming apart. Those pics will become part of that cars History and would help answer any questions later on that might be asked by prospective future buyers.. "It is always better to buy a car with paperwork and documents then without..A documented car with unquestionable docs will always bring more money than a similar non-documented car regardless of "owner" history or who is sellling... " I agree but that does not mean the car with no paperwork is not worth having. You can ask KS his opinion but even he has tried to buy the car I am talking about. He might use the no paperwork part to try and get it cheaper but he still wants the car.

Charley,

I am not saying I wouldn't want to buy it..lol Ity sounds like a neat car..I however wouldn't pay what a similar car WITH paperwork is bringing..I think this is where research comes in..It is only because of the recent 2-3 years and the obscene money being paid on these cars, that people's judgement has gotten clouded on whether a car is validated.. I think if more people stepped back and researched BEFORE buying there would be more of a "normal" market based on tiers of cars..that is 100% factory paperwork validated cars would be top, and subsequent tiers would be cars with less paperwork..this isn't what is really going on here...Any potential COPO (whether validated with factory paperwork or not)is selling at the same price a documented car is..There is a perceived limited amount of cars out there, and guys will pay whatever to own one..What is being forgotten is that these cars are only worth the money to other like minded collectors..Take a poll and see if your co-workers will pay 150k for a 1969 Camaro that has stripes saying "yenko" on them..Most will look stupid at you..Therefore the "value" is only here among other enthusiast..They are not "universally" accepted commodities such as gold, real estate, ect..If the hobby doesn't revert back to stressing factory paperwork over perceived rarity then there will be a lot of hurt feelings down the road..Just my opinion