1970 Ls6 Convertible

Chuck's opinions are both well stated and well respected in my opinion...I agree 100% with him concerning the current prices and what has become "acceptable" in this hobby. I know Chris and while I value his opinion, I'm not ready to risk buying a car for that kind of cash without firm factory paperwork. Buildsheets or GM Canada paperwork in my opinion are the BEST source of factory documentation, as they are directly from the factory. I think the days of guys buying a car with a POP and thinking it is original, based solely on that are long gone. I don't think anyone is navie to think buildsheets can't be faked, however there are a lot of subtle things that verify a sheet as being authentic. With POP's there isn't this "safeguard," therefore a car with solely a POP can't be worth in my mind what a buildsheet car is worth, and in my mind it doesn't matter whether the car is a COPO or a LS6. I do applaud the seller for not having a POP made as well. Just because a car is bought by someone here doesn't mean it is real or correct, so I completely disagree with the idea that this board or 1 person can "make or break" a car. As Chuck pointed out, doing your homework and researching a car, can and will substantiate or discredit paperwork and a car.

Just as a side bar to this topic...ever notice how many people frown upon green cars, yet when looking at what was "popular" green and "earth tones," were the rage in the late '60's and early '70's. I would bet if someone took a statistical sample green would account for a large percentage of sales. I do hope that whoever ends up with the car appreciates it, and it is proven to be legit as is expected.

[Belair62]

Good civil perspectives .....Thanks. Greg, color will always be in the eye of the beholder and his checkbook....

[Jeff H]

You should see the green in my house! Dark, dark green kitchen cabinets, green kitchen sink, green stovetop, green oven, green fridge, green bathroom sink, green bathtub. Thank god my car is Hugger Orange! But my first Camaro was Rally Green. As for paperwork, I know of a 10K mile, original owner 69 Z28 Rally Green that is in mint condition. He doesn't have a clue where any paperwork is for the car. I know the car is exactly what he says. I would pay more for that car than for a car with so called documentation since any documentation can be faked nowadays. So documentation is really more of comfort factor when buying a vehicle. If you think the paperwork has been faked, then you won't buy the car. If it looks legit, you're more comfortable buying the car, but there are still no gaurantees. I don't care if it's POP, window sticker, buildsheet or GM of Canada docs, it can all be faked. The GM of Canada is the safest because you can still call them with the VIN and verify that the car is legit. It still doesn't mean the engine hasn't been restamped or altered. That's why the records that Chevrolet has that Jim M's group is working on is so valuable. More comfort knowing that the car is legit.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone is navie to think buildsheets can't be faked, however there are a lot of subtle things that verify a sheet as being authentic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could say the same thing about the car itself!

True, and I'm certainly not saying I've not owned some cars that I thought were completely legit and that had nothing more than title searches. However I didn't pay what the cars are "worth" today, and when sold they weren't sold for top dollar either. I think there are a lot cars without factory docs that are legit, but if I'm looking at the "big picture," I'm concerned about possible re-sale (never know when I might have to sell..)so IMO factory docs are the only way to go. Yes buildsheets can be faked, but if you educate yourself and research what original docs look like, you won't get burned..The materials to fake them aren't available (the actual sheets are distinct plant to plant) and the way the different factories coded the options and the fonts they used are unique plant to plant..With POP's the materials and "look" are universal and they have been avaiable for sometime..A POP "made" 15 years ago, can look aged and will appear original. Since there isn't any "special" wording, unique paper or type font, I personally don't think they can be used to validate a car. They are nice to have, and in conjunction with other docs can further lend credulence the car is legit, BUT they don't validate by themselves. Same with other non-factory docs...Just my opinion..

[yountto]

Joe, Youre a parts vendor too..i know i have enough stuff here myself to make 10 copos if i chose....the point is dated parts dont make a car... The reason 437 alternators and 499 distributors are thousands of dollars is because the undocumented cars get them to create a sense of "documentation" and originality....Ill take a canada paperwork driver COPO with a 350 engine over any undocumented "#s match" COPO ANY day of the week...

[Charley Lillard]

So I have a Friend with a Triple black RS M22 COPO that has orig drivetrain but no paperwork. He has known the car since new and it needs resto. You are saying you would take the 350 COPO over it because it has paperwork ? I think every individual car is different and has its own circumstances. I would take this Black RS COPO over almost any other COPO, with or without paperwork.

[yountto]

As Greg C stated earlier,whether you buy a car for enjoyment or investment you always have to think about down the road...I prefer to have factory paperwork because most people buying big $$ cars want it ,plus i can make my own undocumented car if i wanted and probably save 50k ...I wouldnt want to be in a situation where i rely on a "my friend bought it new,heres his phone #" to secure my 200k investment.You know your friend and know the car is real,but after a few more people buy it it becomes a 5 owner undocumented car that 2 friends once owned ....If i just wanted a car to use and enjoy then id take the car you speak of.....I have never seen a collection where the owner weeded out his factory paperwork cars to make room for the undocumented ones.... have you???

[Charley Lillard]

If I had a documented COPO Camaro and the owner wanted to work out a trade for his black one I would do it in a second.

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had a documented COPO Camaro and the owner wanted to work out a trade for his black one I would do it in a second.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same with the low mile original owner Z28 I mentioned. Each car has it's good points and bad points. And each car appeals to a specific type of person. So saying a certain documented car is worth more or less than an undocumented car is really just stating a personal opinion. The market will determine what a given car is worth and the associated risk in buying it. I prefer to have documents with a car, but if it's a very limited production car, you don't have much choice if you really want one.