70 LS6

[Charley Lillard]

Look back a year ago and I would say a Copo Camaro was bringing almost double what a LS6 Chevelle was. There are quite a few LS6 Cars around. There now seems to be more Copos found every day and they are not as Mysterious as they used to be so things might be equaling out a little bit but a LS6 is still a car that you could just order at your Chevy dealer. You didn't need the secret handshake and know the Copo Code to order one like you did a Copo. I think I bought my first Copo back in 89 or 90 from a Crook for 45K and it needed Restoring but I just had to have one. I sold my Frame off LS6 for 43K just 6 Years ago to put my Pool and Spa in. In my mind a Copo Camaro will always be worth more than a LS6. I think I sold my Black LS6 maybe 2 years ago for about 32K.....Just Rambling........Carry on with your arguement..

Not an argument at all Charley..just a good discussion. I think most guys are missing the point about buildsheets. Sure they can and have been faked..Sure they can be incomplete and missing portions. However if you do your homework and look at enough original sheets a faked sheet can be easily spotted. Case in point..the buildsheet for "Red Alert"...Nothing more than a copy made to approximate how one would look. With what is currently available on COPO's as a general rule..a POP or a window sticker..these items are very easily faked...Therefore why would you pay a premimum for a car that just has these items? Why should a suspected COPO (with only a POP or window sticker)be worth the same as a LS6 with a legit non-faked buildsheet. Look at it this way...the paper buildsheets were made on is special..has a distinct "look" and the codes and font are special as well..Since (please correct me if I'm mistaken here..) nobody has unearthed blank factory buildsheet copies and created a sheet that is intinguishable from an original in both appearance and weathering why should we pay more for a suspected car with a POP that all the items, are and have been available for at least 15 years??? POP's were being sold 15 years ago that are both correct and indistinguishable from an original, add to that age or "weathering" and Whala..a COPO. Since these cars rarely have any other solid factory documentation IMO they shouldn't be worth as much as a Z28 or SS396 Camaro in similar condition. IMO it equates to a "sum of the parts." I'll even go and say that the same applies to LS6's that aren't with a buildsheet as they then would be suspected to the same POP and window sticker problems as the COPO's. Of course cars that have "alternate" docs (invoices, order forms, etc. need to be looked at on a case by case basis)..IMO one would be foolish with the fraud and desception going on today to buy ANY popular musclecar without solid factory docs ( a few exceptions noted).

[camarojoe]

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Since these cars rarely have any other solid factory documentation IMO they shouldn't be worth as much as a Z28 or SS396 Camaro in similar condition.

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So a Z/28, an SS396, and a COPO should all be worth the same money if you don't have a buildsheet for any of them? I think alot of SS and Z owners would be very willing to make an "even-steven" swap.

[camarojoe]

Good point Charley. IMO to compare a 69 COPO 427 camaro to an RPO 70 SS Chevelle is really not a comparison at all. An LS6 could be ordered anywhere, at even the most mundane, non high performance dealer. No secrets, nothing difficult about it, the dealer (or customer) didn't have to know anything more than how to order a regular production option and check off the option box. Well through the 70s and through much of the 80s people were STILL not sure what a COPO 427 even was... many people OWNED them and didnt realize how special or how rare their cars were. To this very day these cars hold a mystique about them to many people. Don't get me wrong, I like 70 Chevelles as much as the next guy, but a COPO (Camaro OR Chevelle) is in a different realm of rarity all together. I agree, documentation helps ANY car, and the more the better, but i also believe that many cars can be determined to be legitimate beyond a shadow of a doubt(SS or COPO) without such things as build sheets or protect-o-plates. i don't know if i'd trust a build sheet or protectoplate as "ironclad" documentation on anything in this day in age anyhow.

While COPO's were certainly not the dealer stocked car as a general rule I think the generally accepted number of 900-1000 shows that they were more known about than people would like to believe. Keep in mind the LS6 production was only 4475 so the COPO even as "mysterious" as I'm sure it was still sold roughly 25% of LS6 production. I agree nothing is "ironclad" but if I'm forking out 100k for a car..I'll take as much legit factory paperwork as possible...What is your perception of LS6 converts...roughly (in my opinion at least) 50 cars made..Highest advertised horsepower of the musclecar era in a convert no less...

Joe sorry for the typo...they SHOULD be worth only as much as a SS396 (again I was refering to a L78) or a Z28 with the same docs..I'm sorry but I've owned quite a few Camaros (I'm actually more of a Camaro person then a Chevelle person anyway) everything from Z's to L78 and a couple of L89's, along with what I think MIGHT be a COPO, but as far as protecting my investment..I'll take the LS6 anyday..usually better overall factory paperwork and IMO therefore a greater chance or being legit all things (matching numbers, condition, etc.) being equal...

[Jeff H]

There are some Camaros that have been found with a buildsheet. So you're saying that a Z28 with a buildsheet should be worth more than a Z28 with P-O-P or window sticker? I think that most people look at documentation from the point of view that it can all be faked, and if you're not comfortable with what you're looking at, walk away. Look at the P-O-P Charley posted from that L89 Camaro at BJ. But to answer your first question, if you offered me an LS6 with a buildsheet and a COPO with a P-O-P or window sticker and both had matching #'s engines/transmissions, I would take the COPO because I'm a Camaro nut. The difference in the type of documentation wouldn't be a factor.

While I also prefer a Camaro to a chevelle... I would take the LS6 if both cars were in equal condition BASED on the documentation. Also "YES" I would take a Z with a broadcast sheet over a Z without one but a POP anyday of the week...

[yountto]

Simply said ....1000["secret" handshake availabilty] vs 25[available to anyone at any mundane dealership] produced,425 vs 450 Horsepower, hardtop vs convertible....If an ls6 doesnt have a buildsheet its considered a fake but a copo with only an "original" engine,owner history,or title is documented???? Ask any collector if hed give up his copo or his ls6 ragtop[that is if he was lucky enough to have one in his collection]..he may prefer copos personally but if we are talking $$$ and rarity,aint no comparison,period .........if 1000 production constitutes a secret,it would seem the ls6 ragtop buyers had a bigger secret..

[Jeff Murphy]

I'd rather take a COPO with factory and/or dealership docs. My 9561 has the following docs, each showing the major option codes:

- Original hand written dealer invoice
- Car Shipper
- Car Invoice Mail Copy

Seems like Gary Holub has used this criteria to great effect...