GMMG CAR ON EBAY

[bbdon]

Matt, My name is Don Coffman. I sell on eBay with the user name Novadon. I guess I took this personally because this is one of the few cars discussed here that I might actually be able to afford, I toyed with the idea of bidding myself. Not seriously, but enough to linger on the auction and this thread for a while.
The situation that you have described hypotheticly is shill bidding and it is about the same to me as stealing from the other bidders. With respect to the car in question, you know the reserve and bid under that number intentionally? Just to bring the bidding up to where you thought is should be? Am I correct? The bid was clearly made with the intention of helping the auction price go higher, not to actually buy the car.
If you, as an experienced businessman cannot see the obvious ethical problem that is created here, I'm speechless, I don't know how to help. I have only had very basic business conduct study from work, but I know this is not right.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Much of what has been discussed here has been a matter of perception and interpretation. Like so many subjects that revolve around these types of arguments, there will always be two sides. Both can be right, and, both can be wrong, to certain degrees. This auction could [and should have] been handled differently, but, it seems the parties have apologized for any perceived deception, so, can't we get in the spirit of the season and cut them a little slack?

There is a situation in which I have found myself relating to a friend's car on Ebay. I knew his asking price, but, not his reserve. I did not want to pay that price, but, I did want to buy the car. Is it unethical for me to bid on this car to test the reserve, as well as, to try to discourage other bidders? I don't think so. As long as there is no collusion, and that's the key, I can bid anyway I want to in order to try to win that auction. Sometimes waiting until the very end works, but, sometimes you lose that way too. The whole auction concept is a game of strategies. I frankly don't buy the idea that other bidders can be "tricked" into bidding more than they "can afford". Then they shouldn't be bidding. Sometimes you get a great deal, and, sometimes you pay too much, but, it's always YOU who hits that submit bid button. If it's more than you want to spend, don't bid.

If this auction had a starting bid of 21.5, or, a "Buy it Now" near that, would we even be having this discussion? Again, should it have been handled in another fashion? Sure, but, let's not make it a death penalty case.

[Jeff H]

Personally, I don't see it as shill bidding if you really are looking to buy something and have the money and place a bid for the amount you're willing to pay for it. It doesn't matter if it's a friend or complete stranger. The problem arises when you know what the reserve is and know that you bid won't meet the reserve. Most people decide to not even bother placing a bid. There's nothing wrong with placing a bid when you know it won't meet the reserve. What happens if the seller decides he needs to move it now and drops the reserve? You could suddenly become the high bidder and it's completely legit. There's definitely shill bidding going on with Ebay, but regardless of that, you have to decide what you're willing to pay for something and place your bid and stick to it. Don't base the items value on what other people bid.

[jg95z28]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I don't see it as shill bidding if you really are looking to buy something and have the money and place a bid for the amount you're willing to pay for it. It doesn't matter if it's a friend or complete stranger. The problem arises when you know what the reserve is and know that you bid won't meet the reserve.

[/ QUOTE ]Jeff, that is exactly what shill bidding is. You know the seller, you know the reserve, you know your bid will raise the price, however you aren't on the hook to buy the item because you're under the reserve price.

I actually have less of a problem with this type of action even though it is specifically considered a no-no by ebay. The bigger problem is two friends come on a messageboard and talk up a car that another friend is selling and pretend like they don't know who each other is or all the details. No one came clean until Aloha Jeff caught them red handed. That to me is bad business and can be potentially damaging to a company like GMMG.

These guys are actually lucky someone doesn't come along and creates a dummy account and bids up the price past the reserve. Why? Because if the bid goes past the reserve and the phoney-winning bidder neglects payment, the seller will still be responsible for the ebay fees on the selling price. (You'll have a rough time getting a credit back from ebay.) I've seen this happen time and time again on smaller items, so I'm sure it happens on their bigger auctions as well. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img]

[Jeff H]

Jeff, I disagree with you on that being shill bidding. If you are honestly interested in the item and place a bid of what you are willing to pay for it, then that is totally legit even if your bid doesn't meet the reserve. If you are placing a bid on an item and know that your bid is below the reserve and you have no intention of ever buying the item, then that is shill bidding. I've placed bids on stuff knowing what the reserve was and that I wasn't willing to pay that much so I put in the amount I was willing to pay. The item didn't meet the reserve and I was the high bidder. The seller contacted me and sold the item to me at my price. I'm not defending anyone, but I think people are looking at shill bidding the wrong way. It's obvious that it happens on Ebay and when it does, you move on to another item.

[Kim_Howie]

I have a big problem with two people comming on this board acting like they don't know each other and posting like they did. THAT'S NOT HOYLE [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] jmo

[jg95z28]

I must have misunderstood. I thought Matt and Mike admitted to knowing the reserve price before bidding on their friend's car. That is what I was referring to as "shill bidding."

[Jeff H]

I think they did know the reserve, but that's no reason not to place your bid if you are really interested in the car. I agree with Kim though, that going on to a public board and talking up an item like that could cause problems.