Apology to Chevy Supercar purists

[JoeC]

64 GTO is a cool car and should get credit as a leader in Muscle car history but I think the 1963 421 Tempest was a real hot rod and should get more credit as first muscle car. Although it was low volume, it fits muscle car definition as small car with big engine as compared to the '63 Z-11 big car big engine. (musclebarge)

[olredalert]

JoeC,

------Yes the 63 Tempest 421s were very fast cars and set in motion things to come.However,as delivered,they were definetly not useable for much of anything.The rope driveshaft and transmission-rear end set up were woefully inept for almost any use.I dont know of any racer that could keep one together,or make one run in as delivered condition.Arnie B told me one time that he just shook his head the first time he looked underneath one,and we all know what he did to his almost immediatly upon recieving it.
------I have a friend who had a brand new 326 3spd (only standard trans available) convertible and his was always in the shop for one drivetrain problem or another.That engine was 250hp.Can you imagine what the 421 would do.I know the trans was upgraded but,as delivered it wasnt near enough!
-----They are a great looking little car though and when modified with the correct trans location and rear-end they make for a great package..........Bill S

[JoeC]

Bill,
That trans set up was ahead of its time but did have some problems.
Do you know what trans set up was used on the Ray Nicklos 421 Tempest that won the race at Daytona Speed Weeks 1963. It beat the 427 Corvette MKII, Ferraris and other exotic cars. AJ Foyt was second in a Z06.

[Eddie M.]

Beings I was riding bicycle's around the time of those cool cars. that thread was a great history lesson for me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

[olredalert]

JoeC,

-----I remember the car and the race,but dont remember the configuration of the Tempest.I would be interested to know.Would have been a cool race to experience.
-----Right around that era I did go to the Sebring 12hr(I think I was 15 or so) and actually held Donna Mae Mims up on the wall to watch the start.That made such an impression on me I have forgotten what Don was racing that year!........Bill S

[JoeC]

I talked to Donna Mae a couple of weeks ago. She is helping us with the nomination of Don Yenko to the Corvette hall of fame. She is the first woman SCCA national champ. I have some old pictures of her and can see why you would remember her.

[olredalert]

-------Yup!She got that 15 year old libido all fired up.
-------I do remember one of the Grand Sport roadsters in that race or maybe the next year.It was the Sunoco blue Penske car.It would come down the back straight(behind the pits)at what looked like 300MPH to my young mind,nose way in the air.Seemed to sort of jump all over the place.I now realize that this was a function of the poor aerodynamics.Then the brakes were applied(read slammed)for the hairpin before the start/finish.As the car came out of the hairpin and hit the throttle,it would lift the inside front tire off the ground for about 200ft.In the process it would pass all the little stuff in its way(read everything)lap after lap after lap.Awsome sight!
-------Years later I had the good fortune to be part of the restoration process on that very same Grand Sport........Bill S

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
The rope driveshaft and transmission-rear end set up were woefully inept for almost any use.I dont know of any racer that could keep one together,or make one run in as delivered condition

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the guys I race Pure Stock with recently rebuilt one of those setups for a car being done over at Scott Tieman's shop, and from what he described those setups are a NIGHTMARE. Anyone know anything about that 421 at Tieman's? He told me who's it was but forgot!

[Jeff Murphy]

Bill,

Have you had the chance to read Paul Van Valkenburgh's book called "Chevrolet= Racing?: 14 Years of Raucous Silence! 1957-1970"? You'd love it if you haven't.

Actually, I'd recommend it to any site member that likes the old racing stuff. Not too much drag racing, but the book has extensive coverage of Duntov's early projects up through the Grand Sport program, Jim Hall's Chaparral operations, Penske/Donohue, Smokey Yunick, Yenko's Stinger program and the development of the Can-Am/ZL-1 engine... And even better, it was written by an insider. Van Valkenburgh was an insider at Chevrolet Research and Development as an aerodynamicist in competition vehicle dynamics.

Great stuff. I managed to find a 1972 first edition for a decent price, but they've done a recent reprint.