Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise

[Chevy454]

I hate to hear stories about clones, because more often than not (especially here lately), the story ends with someone buying one thinking it is authentic. There is nothing wrong with "cloning" these great cars, or any cars for that matter, the problem I have is with the misrepresentation that normally surrounds them.

I wish people would research these cars a little more before they purchase them, as there are MANY people in this hobby who would be glad to help, and many of those helpful people post on this bulletin board!

Are there ways to cure this problem?

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LS-6 Chevelle
(450hp, M-22, 4.10 posi,
AM/FM 8-track, red w/black stripes)

[Charley Lillard]

Volo Auto Museum had a LS6 convert. on Ebay about a month ago. Jay from Volo called and represented it to me as a real car. I later found out it was a built fake that Volo knew about all along. I Emailed Jay and asked why he tried selling me a fake but never heard back. The car is red with black int. I was told it sold for around 70,000.00 It was built in Wisconsin. All this Bogus stuff is getting old.

[COPO]

I too inquired about the "Bogus" LS-6 convertible at VOLO/ebay. I had Volo send me a copy of the P-O-P as well as all of the casting and stamped numbers. The most obvious thing about this car was it had a build date of August 1969 and the LS-6 was not offered until November of 1969. There was also an error on the restamped tranny that they transferred to the repro P-O-P. There is also a blue bogus LS-6 convertible floating around that Volo sold about 3 years ago. It was also "built" in Wisconsin.

"Caveat Emptor"

[Edited by COPO (05-03-2000 at 05:22 PM).]

[Charley Lillard]

The same person that built those fakes also built a Black with red interior LS6 convert. that was owned by Dave Simpsom. Mecum auctions bought and sold it. Was told it sold at Barret Jackson this year for around 85,000

[sYc]

You guys are right. This fake thing is getting out of hand and is beginning to hurt the supercar hobby. I think that we need to get organized and see if we can slow down the buying/selling of fakes. I have began talking to various people who have many of the records related to the supercars to get their thoughts on this issue. I would like to see some sort of registry, such as what the SCCA (Shelby) people have. What are your thoughts/ideas? Tom

[COPO]

This is a REAL problem and getting worse!

I think a registry can certainly decrease the number of fakes. You certainly aren't likely to see any fake ZL-1's as all the VIN's are well known, Joel Rosen has the Baldwin Motion numbers and Ed Cunneen has a many of the COPO's. There are a number of other registries as well.

I've started a registry and have been collecting LS-6 convertible documentation, VIN's, cowl tag, and option info for both the fakes and the documented cars. I've found several excellent fakes that have sold for BIG dollars to (supposedly) knowledgeable collectors. Some of which are mentioned in Charley's post above.

The registries will be much more useful to the hobby as a whole if the information is released to the public rather than kept in private hands. Clubs such as this are a good way to exchange information about cars as well.

Another problem the fakes create is a devaluation of REAL cars which are not heavily documented. I've talked to some owners of legit cars that have had repro docs made because of this issue.

Many of the Yenko Club members have well into the 6 figures invested in their car(s) and while I believe most of us love our cars and the hobby. Let's face it, none of us want our "investments" devalued due to the fakes.

Many of the car related websites have helped to weed out the obvious fakes, but there are many excellent "built" cars out there. Trim tags, P-O-P's, window stickers, are all readily available just look in Hemmings each month. The only documentation that I'm aware of that is not widely faked is the buildsheet. I will generally extensively research any car I'm looking to buy and have gone as far as hiring a private detective to track down previous owners to ensure a car I was buying was legit.

Of course Chevrolet could release the "secret files" like Pontiac and GM of Canada did and the problem would virtually cease overnight.



[Edited by COPO (05-04-2000 at 08:50 PM).]

[Peter]

Agree with COPO on this one. All these wonderful sights (not being sarcastic they really are great) do everything they can to keep the vin numbers and related info to themselves to keep the general public in the dark about what makes the car real so its harder to build a fake. Problem is that the buyer IS the general public that doesn't have all the info so they have a hard time knowing if the car is real and take a chance thinking all that paperwork that comes with the car must mean its legit. Yenko's, COPO's and such and being "created" all the time. When was the last time you heard of a fake ZL1 being bought and sold as real but ending up being a fake? Maybe you have but very rare. Why? Because the vin numbers and all related info has been public access to anyone for some time now. Most of you guys with real cars don't want to give up your valuable info especially now with even more fakes being sold but its not helping keeping all the info to yourselves. Its easy to say that if you think the car your looking at is real then call Joel Rosen, Yenko Registry, CRG etc but it may be too late by that time or too many other questions come up and by that time the car is gone. The ZL1 cars may not be faked as much because of the low number made but I think it is more related to the fact that so much info is public including the vin numbers. Its not that easy to make a clone and use a legit vin number. There are plenty of registries with all kinds of critical data on all these websites and until the info is made public there will be tons of clones made. Seems to me the info isn't hard to get, just hard to get public. People give their info to the registries hoping it stays with the registries. I understand that but it doesn't do anyone else that wants to purchase these cars any good to have that info solely in the possesion of the people that already know how to tell the bad cars from the good. I'm not bitter but I blame the registries for alot of the clones. I used to think to myself that the people that buy these clones are sometimes fools for asking "is the car I just paid tons of money for real" after buying the car. You guys all reply buyer beware and ask these questions before hand but its almost impossible. Can I call Joel Rosen in one minute if I'm at a auction? I don't think so. The only way to stop the cloning is to not buy them. The only way to not buy them is to know its a clone. The only way to know its a clone it to have as much information about the kind of car you are looking at up front!! Sorry for making this so long and thank you for letting me vent. I don't mean to upset anyone by telling them they should make the info public knowledge but its the public buying these things