Premier Level Judging for the MCACN Show

[Copo_Cartel]

I am guessing that the backlash from participants from the 2019 show has created this new Premier Class. I have always been controversial but one thing I pride myself in is honesty even when it’s going against the system... When we restore cars we let them stand on their own merit. That car had NO business whatsoever competing against cars that were in a different league. Take my car out of the equation (happy to do so) ...there was 2 other cars more deserving...especially the L-79 Chevy II . It would be nice if the owner of the Trans Am car would share his internet/ Facebook photos of the extensive work completed by the sheet metal fab shop... The use of so much Japanese Sheetmetal alone tells its own story...best GM means best GM restored ...in this case using GM parts. The painstaking search for original parts was done by all of the participants...trust me ...a fellow member helped me with 4 original wheels ($4,500) as well as finding 4 NOS G70-15 tires($3,000) and I was happy to find them as my original owner let his go on another car that he sold.

[Steve Shauger]

Hi Doug your point is spot on. Didn't Bob address your concern by stating the following response to your post:


Originally Posted by Copo_Cartel
Long overdue....No way a roundy round car that has ZERO originality should compete with restored cars. I can think of 3 cars that were way more deserving last year and had the pedigree/originality to set them apart from a car that had an all white interior, engine compartment, and undercarriage. Hopefully going forward you won’t compare apples to oranges. Just my .02 cent opinion.

Point taken; however....

We will be separating period correct but modified cars from the factory stock cars for consideration of the Platinum Pick and Emerald awards effective immediately, as it is indeed trying to compare apples to oranges.


It seems that this specific issue has been resolved. The passion, time, money and attention to detail was phenomenal.

[HuggerSS]

I disagree with excluding 67 and 68 Yenko’s. 69 Yenko’s had stripes added, gauges and sometimes rims and headers. The difference is these cars were purchased from a dealer as a new car and was not modified by an individual. The same goes with 67 and 68 Z28 with dealer installed cowl plenum and headers.
I feel if the car came from a dealer with a warranty (factory or dealer provided) then the car should be eligible.
There are a lot of super cars that would be eligible for this class, Doug’s 67 Yenko should defiantly be one of them

[Copo_Cartel]

Originally Posted by HuggerSS

I disagree with excluding 67 and 68 Yenko’s. 69 Yenko’s had stripes added, gauges and sometimes rims and headers. The difference is these cars were purchased from a dealer as a new car and was not modified by an individual. The same goes with 67 and 68 Z28 with dealer installed cowl plenum and headers.
I feel if the car came from a dealer with a warranty (factory or dealer provided) then the car should be eligible.
There are a lot of super cars that would be eligible for this class, Doug’s 67 Yenko should defiantly be one of them

Well said and explained. Steve...I was calling out the elephant in the room.
I have heard from so many people since the show and most of them are very knowledgeable in the hobby but they didn’t want to voice their opinions in fear of the repercussions and the site moderators... Steve you and I have talked on several occasions in the past about other issues and you know for me it’s black-and-white and I don’t mind voicing my opinion when others won’t and the last time I checked GM muscle cars were made in America. It would be a good idea for restored cars that are going to this level of judging to provide restoration photos of different components and chassis. Going forward it sounds like a new class is formed to separate situations like this. Kuddos to Bob and the MCACN Team .

[Charley Lillard]

Aside from the judging aspect....If I were restoring a vintage Trans Am Camaro to race I would have no problem using replacement sheetmetal that was not from GM. Probably lighter and going to get trashed anyway. Save the orig. GM parts for the trailer queens.

[bashton]

Originally Posted by Copo_Cartel

I am guessing that the backlash from participants from the 2019 show has created this new Premier Class. I have always been controversial but one thing I pride myself in is honesty even when it’s going against the system... When we restore cars we let them stand on their own merit. That car had NO business whatsoever competing against cars that were in a different league. Take my car out of the equation (happy to do so) ...there was 2 other cars more deserving...especially the L-79 Chevy II . It would be nice if the owner of the Trans Am car would share his internet/ Facebook photos of the extensive work completed by the sheet metal fab shop... The use of so much Japanese Sheetmetal alone tells its own story...best GM means best GM restored ...in this case using GM parts. The painstaking search for original parts was done by all of the participants...trust me ...a fellow member helped me with 4 original wheels ($4,500) as well as finding 4 NOS G70-15 tires($3,000) and I was happy to find them as my original owner let his go on another car that he sold.

Backlash? Sorry Doug, but the only backlash was from you and a few others that felt it was appropriate to air your beefs on the internet AFTER the show was over. And of course a few "keyboard commando's" that probably were never at the show.

Not interested in a pissing contest over your feelings on this. Whenever one single car or person rises to the top, feelings may be hurt. Fact is, all of this becomes subjective and in this case, I'm sorry you don't agree with the decision. As also stated, your car and several others were certainly worthy, as was the car that took the award.

The MCACN team is committed to maintaining the highest possible standards, not only in the judging field, but all area's of the show.

Bashton

[bashton]

Originally Posted by Copo_Cartel

I am guessing that the backlash from participants from the 2019 show has created this new Premier Class. I have always been controversial but one thing I pride myself in is honesty even when it’s going against the system... When we restore cars we let them stand on their own merit. That car had NO business whatsoever competing against cars that were in a different league. Take my car out of the equation (happy to do so) ...there was 2 other cars more deserving...especially the L-79 Chevy II . It would be nice if the owner of the Trans Am car would share his internet/ Facebook photos of the extensive work completed by the sheet metal fab shop... The use of so much Japanese Sheetmetal alone tells its own story...best GM means best GM restored ...in this case using GM parts. The painstaking search for original parts was done by all of the participants...trust me ...a fellow member helped me with 4 original wheels ($4,500) as well as finding 4 NOS G70-15 tires($3,000) and I was happy to find them as my original owner let his go on another car that he sold.

Actually, a higher level judging category has been under consideration since the inception of the show. The challenge is in having enough qualified Judges who are willing to participate at the level necesary to make this work.

For most brands, we have candidates on board that are willing.

Bashton

[Mr. Chevy]

Now that the topic has come up about judging at this show, one thing I can add that I personally experienced a couple years ago pertains to reproduction bias ply tires. The Chevrolet judges were deducting points for same and the Mopar/Ford judges were not. Not that it really mattered to me but could have been a big deal to someone on that threshold of scoring a gold over silver.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or bash anyone or the show because it is a great venue with great cars, but just a suggestion to have all the judges "working off the same sheet of music".

Rich

[bashton]

Originally Posted by Mr. Chevy

Now that the topic has come up about judging at this show, one thing I can add that I personally experienced a couple years ago pertains to reproduction bias ply tires. The Chevrolet judges were deducting points for same and the Mopar/Ford judges were not. Not that it really mattered to me but could have been a big deal to someone on that threshold of scoring a gold over silver.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or bash anyone or the show because it is a great venue with great cars, but just a suggestion to have all the judges "working off the same sheet of music".

Rich

Absolutely!

Without a doubt, the biggest challenge we have when it comes to judging is consistency among makes, models and especially brands. With over 100 Judges, it is really hard getting everyone on the same page.

We strive to maintain consistency, and believe me...it IS a real challenge!

Thanks for the feedback.

Bashton

[Copo_Cartel]

Bob ....you have no idea who contacted me...Some of those guys are well respected in the restoration world and you know them well. So let’s disagree. 90% plus of the cars that attend the show are trailer queens and use quality parts. Take my car out of the equation ... I am absolutely happy with that. Why doesn’t the Trans Am owner comment or put restoration sheet metal photos up on the site and let the members see for themselves the quality of the best GM car. That car will never see 1 lap of track time or exhibition racing/ pace car duties ...so there was no advantage to using cheap Japanese aftermarket parts.
Hopefully this will bring change for the better to a great event. My opinion/observation is just that so please don’t take it personally.