4-30-20 day for the 430 CanAm aluminum big block Chevy

[L78_Nova]

The bills on the Nova are dated 82... so yes, if real, cool provenance but... I don't see it adding anything like supercar status. I don't recall the asking price at MCACN.


I was trying to post the pics of the Jenkins invoice also but something is not cooperating on this end.
Gary

[Carleen]

There was a Magazine from 69 where Joel Rosen said "The only way to fly is the 430 Can Am"
I cant find that Magazine.
Many of the top teams used Can Am Engines in M / P and Pro Stock

[EZ Nova]

Originally Posted by L78_Nova

The bills on the Nova are dated 82... so yes, if real, cool provenance but... I don't see it adding anything like supercar status. I don't recall the asking price at MCACN.


I was trying to post the pics of the Jenkins invoice also but something is not cooperating on this end.
Gary

On this Nova, I would bring like this:
K}
AVERAGE price for '69 L78 Triple black $X amount (say $78,000 {L78 and $})
Premium for originally sold at Yenko + X amount ( $5,500)
M22 + X amount ( $2,500)
Yenko '82 ZL1 conversion + X amount ( $20,000)
Grumpy worked over ZL! + X amount ( $8,000)

So right around the $115K mark + or - I would figure???? I could be high or low and people might not agree, fine I'm ok with that.

[EZ Nova]

Now back to these 430 ZL1's. Like I said, I don't see a 430 cresting 700Hp back in the early 70's?

Grumpy's '68 BEST pass for the 1970 season according to Draglist times was 9.845 and @ 3010 IF he was only 430 inches would have been 623Hp. YET most go by MPH when looking at Hp at the track. The BEST that car went in 1970 was 138.03 and @ 3010 would have been 609.9Hp.

Now the thing is, It doesn't look from all accounts the Grumpy ran the CA 430 ZL1? I not only have the magazine from July of 1970 where Grumpy built the 70 with a GM 430 inch RAT motor. So the size isn't in dispute, BUT it does say he used the GM 427 crank.

Therefore he would have the normal "052" 4.250 block ZL1 as the engine wouldn't have been 430 with the 3.75 stroke crank and 4.440 bore, more like 465 inch. There is also mentioned out there that for match racing, Grumpy would use a mountain motor and take ALL the weight out of the car. The stories I've heard was a 4.44 block and 4" 454 crank for the old 495 inch but the weight was out, so who know what that motor would have made. I seem to doubt that even Grumpy's 495 IN 1970 made 700Hp? His best match race time was 9.40's but was there 100lbs out or 200 lbs out. It wasn't 3010 legal weight to make the 700Hp.

[Carleen]

https://bruce-mclaren.com/can-am/

[JoeC]

from what I read Bill Jenkins ran a few different engines in 1970 and 1971
the articles are not always accurate so its hard to say what the engine and HP was but I have read that the 1970 and 1971 Pro Stock cars (Ford Chevy Chrysler) were over 700hp

In Super Stock and MP Bill ran the ZL1 and L88 and L72

In Pro Stock he ran the CanAm 430 engine
in match racing he ran the CanAm 494

here is a screen shot from Drag List 1971 PS Mountain (match race) Can Am 494
where Bill ran 9.265 at 141 mph

says the 1971 record was 9.265 at 149.76 mph


John Greenwood ran the ZL1 in his Corvettes for SCCA and FIA road racing
here is a quote about the #49 Corvette where they claim the Traco ZL1 was 750HP


"When it was originally converted, the #49 BFG Corvette received all the popular Greenwood innovations: adjustable suspension, above, notched rear arms, rapid replacement radiator, and quick camber adjustments. A blueprinted Chevrolet ZL1 all-aluminum 427-cubic-inch engine, producing over 750 horsepower at 6,500 rpm, was chosen to replace the factory L88. During the restoration process, the #49 car was fitted with a potent Traco 427 ZL1

Driven by John Greenwood, above, right, 1973, Bridgehampton, Dick Smothers, Bob Johnson and Don Yenko, the #49 Corvette ran in 12 & 24-hour enduro races at Daytona, Le Mans and Sebring. At Le Mans, the Traco-engined “show” Stingray was clocked at 215 mph!"

[Flying Undertaker]

Originally Posted by EZ Nova

Now back to these 430 ZL1's. Like I said, I don't see a 430 cresting 700Hp back in the early 70's?

Grumpy's '68 BEST pass for the 1970 season according to Draglist times was 9.845 and @ 3010 IF he was only 430 inches would have been 623Hp. YET most go by MPH when looking at Hp at the track. The BEST that car went in 1970 was 138.03 and @ 3010 would have been 609.9Hp.

Now the thing is, It doesn't look from all accounts the Grumpy ran the CA 430 ZL1? I not only have the magazine from July of 1970 where Grumpy built the 70 with a GM 430 inch RAT motor. So the size isn't in dispute, BUT it does say he used the GM 427 crank.

Therefore he would have the normal "052" 4.250 block ZL1 as the engine wouldn't have been 430 with the 3.75 stroke crank and 4.440 bore, more like 465 inch. There is also mentioned out there that for match racing, Grumpy would use a mountain motor and take ALL the weight out of the car. The stories I've heard was a 4.44 block and 4" 454 crank for the old 495 inch but the weight was out, so who know what that motor would have made. I seem to doubt that even Grumpy's 495 IN 1970 made 700Hp? His best match race time was 9.40's but was there 100lbs out or 200 lbs out. It wasn't 3010 legal weight to make the 700Hp.

The 430 cu.in. CanAM engine had a lot more going for it than the ZL-1 combo. The CanAm block with the siamesed cylinder walls made for a more rigid block by tying together all the bores, less block shift at high rpm. Also the 4.440 cylinder bores had the effect of unshrouding the valves just by virtue of the larger diameter bores. The short throw crankshaft of 3.47 stroke (think 350 sbc size crank) allowed a better rod length/stroke ratio of 1.768 versus a rod length/stroke ratio of 1.631 for the 3.76 stroke crank, which places the piston at the top dead center for a longer period of time than a longer stroke AND results in less side loading of the cylinder walls by the pistons to ensure cylinder block stability. Also by the shorter stroke, one can rev the motor higher as it would be in a Pro Stock car. NHRA had a 7 lb per cubic inch rule not hp rule. So theoretically, the car would weigh very little between the 427 smaller bore/long stroke and the 430 larger bore/shorter stroke combo ( 21 lbs). This reasoning was the main push behind the 430 CanAM engine combo in Pro Stock. Jenkins used the same reasoning with the '72 Vega. It was true that the 350 sbc made just a little more horsepower than the 331 sbc, but the additional weight (@ 140 lbs) it had to carry would make the combo less viable, competition-wise. I think the heads for the 430 CanAm motor used 2.30 intake valves also.

[EZ Nova]

Undertaker, funny you were mentioning ProStock! My crew chief has been involved in PS since the late 80's and there team since 1991. I also own a 498, 4.84 Borespace Pontiac 427 headed EX ProStock motor. I have personally had my hands on 3 old chevy PS engine from that era, 1 AMC and a couple of the Ford Clevends from 75 or before. Umm never a Hemi???

Anyway the shop I'm associated with built my PS 498 with 1 or 2 other back in the 90's. So we put a lot of that tech into this ZL1. You wouldn't know it with the valvecovers on and intake on.

I have seen 2.25 valve in those old motors but never really paid much attention to see IF the 2.300 would fit??? My "074" were originally done by AFR as a PS head I located off the old serial #. These were 2.25 valved. Now we did some more work to them to get them to work as good as they do. I can post some pictures if you would like to see these.

[JoeC]

found this interesting article THE HISTORY OF MOUNTAIN MOTOR PRO STOCK


The article says ...

“In those early days it was really hard to find the blocks, so you did whatever you could to make the engines bigger,” Leonard said. “The camshafts – you’d put more stroke into it and your rods would hit the camshafts. It was a headache.”

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-...otor-pro-stock

[Carleen]

Heavy also had CanAm Engines