Restamping blocks??????????????

[RST]

Unless you personally purchased the car and have owned it since day one, then you cannot and should not use the term "Born With" unless you have a signed and notarized affidavit from the original owner, and even in those cases, you really have no idea! So the best way to protect yourself is to make sure the seller is known and reputable, the car is known if possible .. (not a barn find) and all date codes, castings etc. match, however once again, if you did not personally buy the car brand new and confirm everything yourself, then you really have no way of knowing for sure. I purchase a lot of cars, and I always make sure all castings, etc, are correct, and that as much documentation is present as possible and the car is well known.

Just my 2 cents [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

[black69]

when I read the ad for the mecum COPO chevelle in this thread, I think when someone writes its <span style="font-style: italic">still with</span> its numbers matching engine, its like saying its got the original engine to the non savvy folks out there. But to me its just creative (yet sad) word-smithing. If its the original engine, people will say it is. I myself would not believe this is the original engine to the car.

For that amount of money, I would expect to see a picture of the broachmarks on the block with the head off. When I bought my 65 L78 out of the Otis chandler collection, I got a nice clear picture of the complete block surface (roger Gibson provided), not just of the pad. Real easy to provide. This stuff is not rocket science, if you are going to ask $200K for this type of car.

That ofcourse still does not rule out a never stamped original block was used, but that is probably a rarer case on this chevelle, as one would have to nail the casting date to be correct. That would be pretty rare to get.

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Unless you personally purchased the car and have owned it since day one, then you cannot and should not use the term &quot;Born With&quot; unless you have a signed and notarized affidavit from the original owner</span>, and even in those cases, you really have no idea! So the best way to protect yourself is to make sure the seller is known and reputable, the car is known if possible .. (not a barn find) and all date codes, castings etc. match, however once again, if you did not personally buy the car brand new and confirm everything yourself, then you really have no way of knowing for sure. I purchase a lot of cars, and I always make sure all castings, etc, are correct, and that as much documentation is present as possible and the car is well known.

Just my 2 cents [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] </div></div>

I would take exception to that. As someone stated, &quot;knowledge is the key&quot;. I've been hired to tell people if their engine was the original or not because I have a very large sampling of original stampings. So, if I in fact happen to own a car with its original engine, purchased from the heir of the deceased original owner, then I feel perfectly safe in describing it as a born-with engine. Who do <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I</span></span> hire to verify my claim?

I know this brings up notions of the fox guarding the hen house, but truth and my reputation are of utmost importance to me. Maybe that's why, given the information I have about certain cars, that I'm still broke.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img]

[RST]

[/quote]

I would take exception to that. As someone stated, &quot;knowledge is the key&quot;. I've been hired to tell people if their engine was the original or not because I have a very large sampling of original stampings. So, if I in fact happen to own a car with its original engine, purchased from the heir of the deceased original owner, then I feel perfectly safe in describing it as a born-with engine. Who do <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I</span></span> hire to verify my claim?

I know this brings up notions of the fox guarding the hen house, but truth and my reputation are of utmost importance to me. Maybe that's why, given the information I have about certain cars, that I'm still broke.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img] [/quote]

While you make some great points, if you state that it is the &quot;Born with Drivetrain&quot; that is based on your opinion and your educated assumption, but you really don't have proof other then your word and your research. I am perfectly comfortable with a person making a statement that, based on the engine stamping, castings, documentation, history, etc, it is believed to be the original born with drivetrain. I mean no disrespect what so ever and I am sure you are 100 times the expert I am on engine stampings etc, I am just stating facts and the facts are, that unfortunately it is virtually impossible to guarantee originality, trust me I wish it was, I have spent a lot of money on cars with the belief that I am purchasing numbers matching cars, and that is why this site is so very important to myself and us all. Experts like you and others that are on this site that have been a part of the hobby for many years help protect others like me. And you and the other experts here on the site can provide verification services as well as information on known cars that can keep this wonderful hobby clean and protected.

Hope to see you all at SCR18 [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]

I would take exception to that. As someone stated, &quot;knowledge is the key&quot;. I've been hired to tell people if their engine was the original or not because I have a very large sampling of original stampings. So, if I in fact happen to own a car with its original engine, purchased from the heir of the deceased original owner, then I feel perfectly safe in describing it as a born-with engine. Who do <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I</span></span> hire to verify my claim?

I know this brings up notions of the fox guarding the hen house, but truth and my reputation are of utmost importance to me. Maybe that's why, given the information I have about certain cars, that I'm still broke.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img] </div></div>

While you make some great points, if you state that it is the &quot;Born with Drivetrain&quot; that is based on your opinion and your educated assumption, but you really don't have proof other then your word and your research. I am perfectly comfortable with a person making a statement that, based on the engine stamping, castings, documentation, history, etc, it is believed to be the original born with drivetrain. I mean no disrespect what so ever and I am sure you are 100 times the expert I am on engine stampings etc, I am just stating facts and the facts are, that unfortunately it is virtually impossible to guarantee originality, trust me I wish it was, I have spent a lot of money on cars with the belief that I am purchasing numbers matching cars, and that is why this site is so very important to myself and us all. Experts like you and others that are on this site that have been a part of the hobby for many years help protect others like me. And you and the other experts here on the site can provide verification services as well as information on known cars that can keep this wonderful hobby clean and protected.

Hope to see you all at SCR18 [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] [/quote]

I do understand your point, but I don't think the &quot;proof&quot; you seek will ever be available for any car, unless by some chance someone took a photo of the deck stamp the day the car was delivered to compare to it today. The &quot;proof&quot; comes from knowledgeable people who inspect what is there and deem it to be original based on many factors. The age, condition, owner history etc are all put to the test to see if it appears to be unmolested. Restored cars are obviously the most difficult to document. Generally speaking, the worse the condition of the car, the easier it is to confrim originality.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[Steve Shauger]

In my opinion if you have the experience, expertise and a data base of unrestored cars and stamping examples then you put yourself in a position to make an educated determination as to the validity of a cars stampings. Not every case is cut and dried, however if I certify or advertise a car as born with drivetrain, then I am absolutely sure of my finding.

I rather buy a car or component where the seller is stating born-with, because they are convinced because of their expertise or an expert they hired to make that statement of its originality. Is it an absolute, no, but then what is. There are a lot of variables and detective work that goes into validating a car or its components.

[RST]

[/quote]

I do understand your point, but I don't think the &quot;proof&quot; you seek will ever be available for any car, unless by some chance someone took a photo of the deck stamp the day the car was delivered to compare to it today. The &quot;proof&quot; comes from knowledgeable people who inspect what is there and deem it to be original based on many factors. The age, condition, owner history etc are all put to the test to see if it appears to be unmolested. Restored cars are obviously the most difficult to document. Generally speaking, the worse the condition of the car, the easier it is to confrim originality.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [/quote]

Understood and agree Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] Keep up the good work.