E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!

[bergy]

the car is absolutely not for sale Tom. I have had a lot of interest, but anyone who asked has been told that it is not for sale - period. Like you said, there is a lot of research left to do. Thanks for helping me clear that up.

[rpoz11]

Bergy, good day to you Sir.

After 18 pages of...discussion,

You need to decide for yourself exactly what you have here in your posession.

Some of us have 1 Camaro, some of us have several.

I personally have 2 69's in my posession.
<span style="font-weight: bold">BOTH</span> ... I can prove, have VIN's that are present on the Cowl Panel and the Firewall matching my dash VIN tag.

Bergy,
After 18 pages of...discussion here,
If you do NOT have the VIN stamped on the Cowl and Firewal &quot;Heater Core&quot; area matching the VIN tag on the dash,
Then you have a Camaro that is in question, and by many views, is not a complete car.

I agree with the person who stated that the VIN stamped on the Cowl &amp; Firewall Heater Box area as the true identity of any 1969 Camaro, with regards, in question here.

I think you need to stop,
with consideration that you are NOW the current owner of this Camaro in question,
put an end to everyone's speculation &amp; quite frankly : your own,
and take the front sheetmetal off of the car and start documenting EXACTLY what you have in your posession!

Your paper trail helps determine the path of the car's past.
Your paper trail provides evidence of the VIN statements.

You need to decide which car is truly in your posession:
The VIN riveted into the dash panel....or
The VIN stamped on the cowl panel.

If your Cowl Panel VIN stamping is NOT matching the Firewall Heater Box VIN stamping ( including the Dash Panel VIN ),

Then you have a very serious decision to make with what you have.

Please,
after 18 pages.... of discussion:
Take the sheetmetal off of the front of this car and document what is currently present and move forward with your decision on this car in question.

Note:
Good Luck to you !
I wish you the best of luck on your decision.
No one in this Hobby wants to go thru what you are about to do.

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpoz11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bergy, good day to you Sir.

After 18 pages of...discussion,

blah blah blah. </div></div>

now at 37 pages ...

IF you had read this discussion you might have picked up that he is now in Florida and the car is in storage in Pennsylvania AND that he said that AFTER he got back (assuming spring, as a lot of people go to FL for the winter, just as many do here in AZ) he would be taking the car apart ...

unnecessary needling about what he should do &amp; shouldn't do with what he owns is not appropriate IMHO ...

he has addressed everything straight up and is not trying to hide anything, input from the peanut gallery is uncalled for <span style="font-weight: bold">IMHO</span>

(I guess nearly as unnecessary as my response is on the issue, as I am about as far removed from everything as anyone can be ...)

[jannes_z-28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al8apex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpoz11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bergy, good day to you Sir.

After 18 pages of...discussion,

blah blah blah. </div></div>

now at 37 pages ...

IF you had read this discussion you might have picked up that he is now in Florida and the car is in storage in Pennsylvania AND that he said that AFTER he got back (assuming spring, as a lot of people go to FL for the winter, just as many do here in AZ) he would be taking the car apart ...

unnecessary needling about what he should do &amp; shouldn't do with what he owns is not appropriate IMHO ...

he has addressed everything straight up and is not trying to hide anything, input from the peanut gallery is uncalled for <span style="font-weight: bold">IMHO</span>

(I guess nearly as unnecessary as my response is on the issue, as I am about as far removed from everything as anyone can be ...) </div></div>

X2

Jan

[Tracker1]

&quot;A car’s legal VIN number is what is stamped in the metal, not the VIN plate, thus you have a legit ’69 Camaro Z-clone without a title..

The stampings carry all of the weight with law enforcement, and were stamped for a very good reason, because VIN plates can be easily removed. &quot;

Talk to ten different vehicle theft cops on ten different police forces and 5 will agree with this statement and five will not, they will prefer the dash tag - go ahead, try it. There is no wholesale consensus among car cops about this, that's a myth.


&quot;Next you have a VIN plate with a title that belongs to another car, not the clone Z. At any point in time, if someone comes up with the original body with VIN stampings, they can claim the VIN tag and title because legally they own the car that the VIN tag belongs to.&quot;

If the dash VIN tag can be proven to have never left this car, the above is an invalid point.

If I were trying to establish a chain of ownership of 21 people with sworn statements from each saying &quot;I never removed that dash tag from that car&quot; from all 21 then I would leave the sheetmetal alone until that was done. Then a law enforcement officer could accompany me to my garage and look over my shoulder as I pulled the heater box from a complete car. If a cop walked into a garage with a Camaro spread out all over the floor I would think it would taint his viewpoint as to whether the car had been tampered with versus seeing a whole bolted-together car. Regardless of sworn statements. That seems to me to be basic psychology.

Bergy is playing it right in my opinion. I know others will not agree.

[sYc]

[quote

Talk to ten different vehicle theft cops on ten different police forces and 5 will agree with this statement and five will not, they will prefer the dash tag - go ahead, try it. There is no wholesale consensus among car cops about this, that's a myth.

[/quote]


Got to disagree with you on this one. I know in Missouri the stampings carry all of the weight, and know of cases in other states where the same held true. The stampings were put there for a reason.

[HiHorse]

This discussion needs a Canadian viewpoint....&quot;A car’s legal VIN number is what is stamped in the metal, not the VIN plate&quot;
My opinion may differ from what is legally acceptable. There is only one VIN. The VIN is used to title a car. A VIN derivative is not on the title. The VIN is riveted on the dash. The stampings are not the VIN. Stampings are VIN derivatives. Under stampings are cowl stampings, block stamping and transmission stamping, all determine pieces that belong to a VIN. So if I have the original transmission to this YENKO, I would not be the legal title holder to the VIN, same with the cowl stampings. But if a theft occurred and the VIN got separated the VIN derivatives are used to identify pieces that belong to the VIN. If a past owner to this YENKO decides to change a damaged part on his cowl and in turn loses a VIN deriavative, the VIN is the VIN. If I hold the original cowl pieces with the VIN derivatives to this Yenko it does not make me the legitamite owner to the car.
While on this topic my view on rebodies: If I decide to sell my original motor which has the VIN derivative to my car , I believe this is the same as taking my car body with original stampings and swapping it for a dynacorn. I believe this should not be illegal. When a buyer is looking for a original car, one checks all VIN derivatives. It should be illegal to restamp a VIN derivative on a part, this is fraud...because the VIN derivative is used to identify original pieces to a VIN........

[69 Post Sedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiHorse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This discussion needs a Canadian viewpoint....&quot;A car’s legal VIN number is what is stamped in the metal, not the VIN plate&quot;
My opinion may differ from what is legally acceptable. There is only one VIN. The VIN is used to title a car. A VIN derivative is not on the title. The VIN is riveted on the dash. The stampings are not the VIN. Stampings are VIN derivatives. Under stampings are cowl stampings, block stamping and transmission stamping, all determine pieces that belong to a VIN. So if I have the original transmission to this YENKO, I would not be the legal title holder to the VIN, same with the cowl stampings. But if a theft occurred and the VIN got separated the VIN derivatives are used to identify pieces that belong to the VIN. If a past owner to this YENKO decides to change a damaged part on his cowl and in turn loses a VIN deriavative, the VIN is the VIN. If I hold the original cowl pieces with the VIN derivatives to this Yenko it does not make me the legitamite owner to the car.
While on this topic my view on rebodies: If I decide to sell my original motor which has the VIN derivative to my car , I believe this is the same as taking my car body with original stampings and swapping it for a dynacorn. I believe this should not be illegal. When a buyer is looking for a original car, one checks all VIN derivatives. It should be illegal to restamp a VIN derivative on a part, this is fraud...because the VIN derivative is used to identify original pieces to a VIN........

</div></div>

Well said! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]