1969 Camaro ZL-1 #51

[iluv69s]

So to recap::

cars with original engines:
1, 17, 18, 25, 30, 34, #51?,
blue lo-mile RS(#?),
orig. paint LB car(per Charlie)(#?)(is that Eddie's car?)

cars with original engine known to exist:

#3, #16, #26, #40, #57

that makes possibly 9? cars with orig. motor and 5 more with motor possibly available to be mated with cars someday.

Does anyone else know any info. on orig. motor cars?

Charlie, So the blue RS at one point did not have it's original motor?? what number ZL-1 is the blue RS??
max

[69 Post Sedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what number ZL-1 is the blue RS??
max </div></div>

#55?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j4fSS7EADE

[SSRSBOB]

The blue RS ZL1, #55 was touting its original engine at the auction on a little cart behind the car, but I have it from a very good source that the engine that came with the car is not the original. The vin stamp did not match up with other known originals......

Bob

[ORIGLS6]

Click here and go to post #213887 by Charley for the explanation on the original engine.

[GRB]

It is a myth that GM gave away any ZL1s. I too was told that and believed it until I saw proof that it was not true. They did not give any ZL1s away and the invoices are available online. Also, back then, it was not uncommon for some people to have all the same numbering tools as GM. Some still have them! Follow the money.

[Charley Lillard]

Where are the invoices ?

[William]

[olredalert]

-----Its probably just me, but why couldnt a ZL1 be given away even if there was an invoice, or any other GM car for that matter. All of them had paperwork that denoted what they would have cost if sold. The paperwork was probably generated no matter what......Bill S

[William]

You need some perspective on Chevrolet in the ‘60s. Everyone should read these books:

Chevrolet = Racing?

By Paul Van Valkenburgh. He worked in Chevrolet R &amp; D in the ‘60s. In the 320 pages there is virtually no mention of drag racing. It is briefly noted: “In the field of drag racing Chevrolet has been even less concerned with any specific individual or team activities.” They did do some evaluation on one of Jenkins cars but didn’t learn much from it. Chevy had tremendous involvement with stock car racing, T/A racing with Penske/Donohue, sports car racing with Jim Hall/Chaparral.

The author had some involvement with Tony DeLorenzo, at the time an amateur racer. Never mind that his father was a GM VP, he had to buy his L-88 Corvette from a Chevy dealer. Their normal parts source was junkyards. For the ’71 season they bought a pair of Bud Moore Mustangs. Quoting the book: “Just how much Chevrolet racing support can there be when two such insiders buy Fords to race?”

Best Damn Garage in Town

By Smokey Yunick. 640 pages, zero mention of drag racing. The consummate insider, Smokey was there at the birth of NASCAR and was involved with R &amp; D well into the ‘70s. There are some amusing comments about the Hemi 302. A constant theme throughout the book is how cheap and difficult Chevy was to deal with.

The Unfair Advantage

By Mark Donohue. There is no better source for perspective on what dealing with Chevrolet was like. The Penske/Chevrolet relationship was so bad by the end of ’69 they switched to AMC Javelins for the 1970 season, a ballsy move considering Penske was a Chevrolet dealer. Same theme as Smokey: cheap and difficult to deal with. When their ’67 Camaro was damaged in a trailer wreck it was rebuilt with junkyard parts. When they wanted Chevy to air freight improved engine parts direct to a track Piggins refused stating “We aren’t involved in racing.” All they did was win back to back championships for Chevy but couldn’t get someone to send them some parts.

On a Clear Day You Can See GM

By John De Lorean. No specific mention of racing. But when De Lorean took over as Chevy General Manager February 1969 it was in poor condition, losing money and market share.

The Gibb Chevrolet/ZL-1 Camaro story is well-known. In interviews many years ago Gibb stated the option price more than doubled by the time the cars were being delivered. He couldn’t pay for them and if his store was GMAC financed, he could only sell them under GMAC supervision. When the depth of the problem was realized Chevy took 37 of them back to Norwood for re-distribution to other dealers. When they still did not sell, Chevy granted discounts to get rid of them. The #3 ZL-1 was discounted and finally sold July 1970. At no time did Gibb ever state that anyone was given a ZL-1 Camaro. His #1 race car was paid for, Harrell’s #15 race car was paid for. Bill Jenkins went to a dealer and bought a ’69 Camaro SS L-78, later installing a ZL-1 engine from a production ZL-1 Camaro.

It is entirely possible a dealer may have provided a ZL-1 Camaro to a racer under some kind of arrangement other than outright purchase. Chevrolet had no interest in drag racing. Given all the history by people who were there it is impossible for me to believe Chevrolet &quot;gave&quot; anyone a ZL-1 Camaro.