Bought 70 L78 Nova w/ following codes sight unseen

[L78steve]

That is the 70 L/78 tach in the above link. There are no other versions of that tach in 1970.

[70ChevyGuy]

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That is the 70 L/78 tach in the above link. There are no other versions of that tach in 1970.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen the third one from the top in ads and articles of survivor 70 L78's. On vacation now but will try digging up my images and sources when i returh home and have time.

[70ChevyGuy]

So I cancelled my transaction. And hope others can learn from this experience. Seller and I agreed on terms, I sent a deposit with the remainder to be delivered by a friend in cash who lives very close to the seller and scheduled transport. This all started a forthright advertisement boasting of code and date and casting codes on a beautiful GREEN 70 Nova which I shared with you in this thread; asking for any coding discrepancies I had missed since the car was undocumented. The seller claimed there was no way to make contact with the prior owners of the car; citing a dealer in South Dakota that the car had gone through which had gone out of business. 1400 miles from the car, I hired an accomplished professional to inspect the car with an emphasis on authenticity. He discovers an impeccable restoration on a car "that truly speaks for itself". So I'm convinced I have a beautiful, no excuse car shamefully lacking paperwork...and a rear end the seller and I thought wasn't likely original. Car has all the right signs otherwise; big block SS frame, no power steering, 6K tach and a numbers matching engine. A bit more forum chat yields the fact that it very likely has an L34 tranny (thanks guys for that). None the less it still appears it could be sitting in an L78 car with a correctly casted and stamped engine (per the inspector). My logic at this point being; why on would someone waste a 70 coded L78 engine on a GREEN NOVA and go through such an elaborate and otherwise date correct restoration? Seller insists and is proud that all numbers match. I requested a closeup photo of the tranny and block stamp. Tranny and block have the same vin as the body and the block. So in the absence of documentation that someone mysteriously downgraded the tranny from the factory, the car became a fraud (statistically speaking). As I learned in this thread, the CF coded tranny was only told what to do by L34's and other lower RPM BB's. In spite of a few people who say it was quite possibly born with the car, benefit of any doubt is officially out the window with the remainder of this car.

Tranny VIN stamp: I'm by no means an accomplished observer but after expanding the image and inverting it (it was taken using a mirror) here's what I noticed. First of all, they stamped the vin right side up, not upside down as it is normally done (got this hint from a fellow forum member). And it's evident there was another row of lettering they tried covering up. When stamping, there's often times a deeper impression on either the top or bottom of the characters. The vin appears to have horizontal artifacts mid-level, suggesting the top or bottom of the characters from the original stamp. When realizing he had unsuccessfully accomplished a good "cover-up", it appears he tried beating in what looked like an honest "double strike" which sometimes happens. This might have made sense on one character but not the 1 and the 0. So basically we have a piss poor tranny re-stamp.




The block: Casting code and date correct. Vin stamp is another story. Most striking similarity between the tranny and the block is the odd shaped W; indicating that whoever stamped the tranny used the same stamping kit on the block and the tranny (normally this is correct but in this case it proves they’re both bunk). A magnified look at the block stamp shows it was clearly planed more deeply on the right to erase a prior vin (there's even a chunk missing; probably from the agitation of this process). You can also see prior-stamping artifacts between the 1 and 0 (the original 1 can be seen). And between and behind the 9 4 3 and 5 there are artifacts. There are the remains of a 7 just above and to the left of the 4 and an what appears to be a 2 to the left of the 5.



Magnified version:



The 6K tach in the dash: Magnified, you can see grease marks and fingerprints; unlikely from the factory.



More research: I friend of a friend coincidentally found a former Ebay ad they had filed away with the same vin and a 427 with a roll cage. I called the number in the ad and discovered that the seller I was dealing with had contacted him and was clearly told about the 427 and roll cage.

So my guess on this car is a guy finds a properly dated L78 block and an L34 chassis, pours his heart, sole and wallet into cloning it but makes the mistake of not checking the correct engine and tranny combinations for L78 Novas. He sells it to the guy I was buying it from who probably didn't realize it until he found his way to the former owner a few months ago. Discovering this; he decides to sell it and fabricates the "closed South Dakota dealer" history barrier and represents the car as an honest L78.

My lesson: There will never again be a car nice enough in my mind that "speaks for itself". I continued requesting close-up pic's and continued speaking with members of these forums over the phone and in PM's....made a couple friends in the process. As a newcomer to the Nova world I uncovered a counterfeit 1400 miles from home while a seasoned show judge let it pass under his nose. In fairness the only way to see the re-stamp on the block is to photograph and expand the image. Mind you, this is still a beautiful car for anyone looking for a nicely done SS. It's at least an original L34 in my estimation and the seller was fact "kind enough" to return my deposit.

At any rate, I enjoyed the journey, thanks for your help and any leads on a documented 70 L78 would be appreciated!

[67BelAir427]

Glad to hear that you find out the truth. The seller is a car dealer in Minnesota.Never mind the show judge, I think I'll contact you to inspect the next car I buy! Good research.

[njsteve]

Very nice detective work!

Just goes to show that the best way to check out a car is to do it yourself, in person, or have someone that knows these cars intimately, check it out in person. No show car judges, no musclecar dealers, no buddies of the seller.

You did a great job on running this dog to ground!

You have passed the initiation and are now an official member of the site!

Welcome aboard, Sir.

[70ChevyGuy]

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Glad to hear that you find out the truth. The seller is a car dealer in Minnesota.Never mind the show judge, I think I'll contact you to inspect the next car I buy! Good research.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct about the dealer. Seemed very honest/humble and seemed surprized when I pointed out the magnified block stamp and mentioned the race history. Oddly cooperative along the way in getting all the pic's for me. I was truly shocked when I learned he had most likely spoken to the guy who owned it with the 427 and cage in it only a few months back. He said he'd owned it since march so I have no reason to think someone else called 3 months ago tracing the history. Whatever...all's well that ends well.

[TDW]

If you don't mind, I'd like to know how you became aware of, and who is the "Show judge". As in, does he openly advertise in the major publications, or is he someone that was recomended to you? I went through pretty much the same thing when I was looking for my L78 Chevelle. I was AMAZED at the BS and flat out liars that are selling cars.

[Smokey]

This car has been on the local Craiglist for many months.

[70ChevyGuy]

I'd like to keep the names out of this. But if anyone is actually hiring an appraiser in the St Paul area, send me a PM and I'll let you know if it's the same guy . My guess is he just was'nt really much of a Nova guy and even made the comment that "it's unusual to see people invest much in these things". When he saw one with what he estimated to be 70K invested he made caved mentally, made assumptions, snapped a few far away shots and moved on. Nice guy but I found myself leading him down the path...from the initial conclusion of screaming deal to "good idea to back out". I was surprised when he didn't offer to refund my money. He can live with that one and frankly I didn't feel it was worth fighting over so I didn't even ask.

And yea, I was stalking that craigslist ad for months. Not a waste of time at all in the big picture and I'm not pissed in the least. What better way to begin a journey toward finding the right "investment grade" 70 L78? I'd still like to own it as a driver but it's not worth much over 25 grand in this economy regardless of how shiny it might be.

[olredalert]

-----The broach marks also tell the "restamp" tale......Bill S