yenko camaro

HPMIKE · #1 11-11-2009, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have mis-interpeted what I was trying to say.

It is funny that you use the example of a Mr. norm's hemi car. It makes no difference WHAT dealer sold a car like that unless it has something to do with that dealer had something to do with it being something different than a car that any other dealer could have sold.

The difference with a Yenko conversion car or a Yenko COPO car is that they were the first ones to DO it or realize they could make such an order. therefore they were only done buy them. It is what the car actually WAS, not the DEALER that happened to THINK of it or do it.

Anyone that "buys into" the idea that a car is worth more because it was something that was order/sold sold by a particular DEALER that was also available from any other dealer that sold the same thing is just kidding themselves. There were dealers all over the country that sold those same cars.

Now if you were comparing it to something like a 1968 Mr. Norm's GSS (the car that set the stage for the later 1969 440 Darts) it would be a comparable example to a Yenko early conversion or later COPO that Yenko as well as a few other dealers that also ordered COPO cars it would be a like comparision.

The 1968 GSS was ONLY available from Mr. Norm's and therefore makes it something "special" with regards to the dealer it came from simply because he was the only one offering them. He had to commit to buy a minimum of 50 before Chrysler would build them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%

The Mr. Norm cars are somewhat unique, but as was stated most of the cars that sold out of that dealership were little more than any other car that could have been bought from any other dealer. A little known fact is that there were "super tuners" at MANY dealerships back in the day. They would set up cars for customers all the time.

I am not trying to belittle the heritage of Mr. Norm, but it was a well known fact that Norm was a marketing guy that was cashing in on the musclecar craze at the time. Absollutely nothing wrong with that. But if he told anyone that a 4 barrel equipped car was a better car (street or strip), then he is just flat out wrong. The factory 6 packs were a HUGE upgrade over the iron intake 4V setup. In fact, until the 6 pack version of the 440 wedge was intro'd, the 440-4V really wasn't that hot, at least when compared with aluminum headed high compression BB Chevy's or Ram Air II/IV Pontiacs, Stage I Buicks, etc. The pre 6 pack 440's were actually pretty much the same motor you would find in the average Newport or Fury. One of the main reasons for this I am sure was to not outdo the legendary Hemi. Once Chrysler saw that the public just wasn't buying the amount of Hemi cars as they planned, they quickly came up with a motor in the 6 pack that would be cheaper, easier to run for the masses- and the rest is history.

MB

**black69** · #2 11-11-2009, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have mis-interpeted what I was trying to say.

It is funny that you use the example of a Mr. norm's hemi car. It makes no difference WHAT dealer sold a car like that unless it has something to do with that dealer had something to do with it being something different than a car that any other dealer could have sold.

The difference with a Yenko conversion car or a Yenko COPO car is that they were the first ones to DO it or realize they could make such an order. therefore they were only done buy them. It is what the car actually WAS, not the DEALER that happened to THINK of it or do it.

Anyone that "buys into" the idea that a car is worth more because it was something that was order/sold sold by a particular DEALER that was also available from any other dealer that sold the same thing is just kidding themselves. There were dealers all over the country that sold those same cars.

Now if you were comparing it to something like a 1968 Mr. Norm's GSS (the car that set the stage for the later 1969 440 Darts) it would be a comparable example to a Yenko early conversion or later COPO that Yenko as well as a few other dealers that also ordered COPO cars it would be a like comparision.

The 1968 GSS was ONLY available from Mr. Norm's and therefore makes it something "special" with regards to the dealer it came from simply because he was the only one offering them. He had to commit to buy a minimum of 50 before Chrysler would build them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%

The Mr. Norm cars are somewhat unique, but as was stated most of the cars that sold out of that dealership were little more than any other car that could have been bought from any other dealer. A little known fact is that there were "super tuners" at MANY dealerships back in the day. They would set up cars for customers all the time.

I am not trying to belittle the heritage of Mr. Norm, but it was a well known fact that Norm was a marketing guy that was cashing in on the musclecar craze at the time. Absollutely nothing wrong with that. But if he told anyone that a 4 barrel equipped car was a better car (street or strip), then he is just flat out wrong. The factory 6 packs were a HUGE upgrade over the iron intake 4V setup. In fact, until the 6 pack version of the 440 wedge was intro'd, the 440-4V really wasn't that hot, at least when compared with aluminum headed high compression BB Chevy's or Ram Air II/IV Pontiacs, Stage I Buicks, etc. The pre 6 pack 440's were actually pretty much the same motor you would find in the average Newport or Fury. One of the main reasons for this I am sure was to not outdo the legendary Hemi. Once Chrysler saw that the public just wasn't buying the amount of Hemi cars as they planned, they quickly came up with a motor in the 6 pack that would be cheaper, easier to run for the masses- and the rest is history.

MB

[/ QUOTE ]

I do see you point above, and mostly agree. One would think a 4 brl 440 was not in the league as a six pack, no doubt there. But from from weekly racing, there was an aspect of keeping the carbs tuned. My car was rejetted at mr norms, they popped in a purple cam, it had headers added, and was on the dyno often (they guy lived across the street from mr norms). To me, Mr Norm was pushing on this 19yr old kid, at engine setup in his famous GSS dart (a 440 4brl (but with auto)). This 19 yr old kid rebadged as a 340 and made his car payments and insurance payments (which were even higher than the car payment) street racing it. No doubt, as the original owner said, you had to know how to beat a hemi, and the 6 packs out there. all those cars were out there on the street, LS6s, L78s, hemis (some of them easily out of optimum tune, which is part of my point). I give a lot of credit to mr norm's guys that ordered the cars, and then the guys that helped tune them over and over, more than mr norm himself. And the fact you could outfit your car there was pretty cool. Mr norm himself, is really a marketing guy, but there was more to his dealership than himself.

Chevy454 · #3 11-11-2009, 05:36 PM

How out of shape would a 6-bbl car have to be to be taken by a 4-bbl car, because from *my* vantage point (from the opposite lane!