Olds W30

[StealthBird]

Color is printed at the bottom of the shipping order (Viking Blue/White). Be careful of resto costs, and think it through in this economy. Resto costs today can top $100K for a top notch resto, done properly, and the prices on fully restored cars keep coming down.

A perfect (ex-Thornton) 70 W-30 ragtop 4-speed just went through BJ at around $170K, and it was considered one of the best in the country, it was resale red with white stripes, and the 70 W-30 4-speed ragtop is the Holy Grail of Oldsmobiles. I would have expected $250K for this car back in 2007.

A clone 71 4-speed W-30 ragtop (Black/White stripes, and very nice) also went through Barrett-Jackson (Florida). The owner had turned down $150K in 2006, then it was listed on E-Bay a few months ago, stalled at $105K, and it just sold at BJ for $84K, so the prices have tumbled.

Paul, just curious, what doesn't appear correct on the shipping order?

[csx289]

Sam, wait until Cana sees your post. She's been called a lot of things, but mutt? Dude, that's harsh

Seriously, however, Stealth- this is secondhand info but I was interested in the Thornton W30 stick car at B-J and was told the paperwork was "iffy" I didn't get much detail, nor did I personally inspect it, but as we know docs are crucial with these cars. If the car was legit, it was a steal. I have inspected a few Thornton restored cars, they are very nice but imho the ones I have seen at auction have been not 100% OE level. Very few people get these things dead on with all original parts, etc. They are time consuming and costly to do right. $100k is low for a proper resto. Trust me, I know

Re the clone car- IMHO, absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the prices of real cars. Clones and tributes have been falling like a lead balloon while real cars are certainly down but hardly crashing like the clones.

Regardless of price/value/cost, any 70/71 W 30 ragtop is a damn cool car! I've owned one of my two since 1988. Paid a world record $2500 for it

Just my random thoughts. Sam, grow eyes in the back of your head and be on the lookout for a 5'8" blonde coming at you

Colin

[StealthBird]

Colin, definately ain't gonna argue with you on this topic, I'm a bystander, you da man. Just a few points though...

Recently sold at RM (I know you know this car, he was trying to sell it for a few years) was a 70 W-30 ragtop 4-speed, Twilight Blue, needed chassis detailing, and it didn't have the all-important "W-30" on the broadcast sheet, yet it still pulled $175K.

So that being said, I would think that the ex-Thorton car at B-J, being a true W-30 4-speed ragtop, shown in stunning race-me red with white stripes, with solid documentation, original window sticker, original photos from 1970, and a top notch, no expense spared restoration, would have fetched more than $175K?

[mockingbird812]

So, if I understand what you saying, Colin, you need more than $1K ? I'll be happy to take your counter offer off line.

[Canuck]

Quote"Getting back to the Red/White car, I have left a message with a well connect Olds guy who relayed a story about a 70 442 ragtop that he and another fellow bought about 4 years ago and in retreiving that car the frame split in two dragging it onto the rollback. The photo at mission 442 looks like it could have been the same car."

Got a call back,same car. It is a real deal, beautiful resoration,extensive parts replacement,rear end could not be salvaged it was so rusty,frame damage as well.


Paul

[Canuck]

I have looked at the photos of this car and it appears to be a beautiful restoration.
What concerns me when a car is presented by one of the countrys top restoration shops, are the number of variances from stock when one is lead to believe the car is factory correct because "so and so" did it.
The shop may have a reputation for beautiful paint,panel fit and upholstery but its the details that hurt a car from being presented as top of its class.
On this car I see the following:

Chrome wheels are incorrect for the year.
Spare wheel lookks like a 14X6 from a 69 or earlier.
Spare tire doesnt match (why have a radial spare with bias ply street tires)
Toronado Oil Pan
Sway bar links in upside down
Over stickered. Rear end has a Coil spring ID tag on it.
Aftemarket rear sway bar with an Olds assembly line tag.
Wrong placement of jack tag.
Body plugs should be splatter covered in trunk.

If you are going to spend that kind of money yo restore this car,spend the extra $1000 and get a Gardner Exhaust.

I saw another 70 442 at BJ Las Vegas, heavily promoted as a Thorton Car, the complete interior was wrong.

As I said I dont know if some of these errors are the customer or the restoration shop. I guess the guy paying the bills has the choice in what they want on their car.

Paul

[RM Schimel]

Paul,

I think the problem with Elliott Jaffe’s Twilight Blue ragtop and this current Matador red ragtop being discussed is there are just too many questions about legitimacy. The discriminating collector will only pay heavily for a car that has a completely solid pedigree & history and clearly these cars did not.

RM

[Canuck]

I agree 100%.
When Elliott was selling his car a few years ago i was contacted by a serious buyer in North Carolina who would have paid $200,000 +, but wanted to see a legaitimate build sheet. He was happy with the way the car was presented but wanted the right paperwork to back it up.

The present discussion Red/White car just had to have too much stuff replaced to be called a restored car.

Your description of what a "discriminating" buyer addresses the real issue. There are just too few Olds to fit that catagory.

Paul

[juliosz]

Stealth, I asked Paul the same question regarding the shipper through PM and have heard nothing at this point. I even followed up and sent him a picture of the build sheet. Thanks for all of the help guys. We're just trying to get a handle on initial cost vs finished cost and where we'll be when the dust settles.

[Canuck]

Juliosz-- I sent you a PM

I agree with what Colin has said about Thorton cars. he does great work but there are details that are missing, could be stuff that is left to the customer. As far as the cars just sold at BJ, I think the red one came from www.mission442.com. Check the before photos. The black one is a fake and I have correspondence from the fellow who cloned it 8 years ago. Its a real 442 4 peed car, thats all.

Stealthbird, the ragtop you refer to was sold at Russo in January not RM

Paul