Survivor ?????

[TLucas]

Correction: "Frank" Arone sorry for the misspell.

[napa68]

I am probably going to bring on some criticism, but, here it goes. IMO you have to recognize original cars in a variety of levels due to the fact no one can control what has happened until now. In the example of the 20k 70 Z28, if the car was in some type of fender bender, are you then going to write off the engine compartment, chassis, and interior for great examples of originality? If you narrow the recognition so far, you are just promoting restoration rather than preservation. Yes, cars need to recognized at different levels due to the amount of originality. As far as the "cleaning" of an original car, I think the discussion is very subjective. If intense cleaning of an engine compartment or chassis is considered "too much or too far", do we then not buff out and detail original paint?
Bloomington Gold and the NCRS have done something that had not been done before. They recognize and promote the preservation of cars that have "areas" of originality, not just the whole car. So many good original cars found their way into resto shops years ago due to the demand for correct cars rather than originals. Have a second thought before you hammer on Bloomington. After all, you have to start somewhere. I fear this thread is going to go too far.
Tim

[Jacsey 70Z]

I was told at Vettefest, "at least you could of cleaned up all the rust"!!

[napa68]

[ QUOTE ]
I was told at Vettefest, "at least you could of cleaned up all the rust"!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't touch that car! Furthermore, if the "rust" comment came from a judge, Mr. Ashton needs to correct that train of thought. Judging from input on this particular thread, shows that venues of signifigant awards need to create some separation for original cars. As mentioned before, all the little chalk marks, paint dabs, and small details of a car NEED to be preserved. If you have not figured it out, I am a huge fan of original cars. Charlie's new car is something not many are going to live up to. If Charlie's car is the determining factor if you keep your car original (or parts of it) vs. restoring it.........we are going to wreck a lot of good references!

[firstgenaddict]

Keeping even a certain section such as engine compartment, chassis, interior, or exterior orignal helps everyone... I personally love to look at the orignal paint cars... there is something about the way the lead was done the grind marks the lacquer checks... it is great to look at... the translucence and surface qualities of the old lacquer are not duplicated...

[Salvatore]

Tim, In all due respect....I don't think musclecar people think like Vette people!

[chads454Ls6]

Here is my 26k bb rs z. It was hit in 1970 and repainted except for the stripes. it is all original drivetrain and motor has never been out. all orginal smog,wires,cap,rotor everything under the hood. Is this a survivor?

[Salvatore]

Not if it was repainted IMO. All original but????

[69hurstSC]

There are so many vague words in the collector car hobby that always get people debating. Clone, Survivor, Musclecar... there are no right or wrong answers. Just individual groups that set their own standards for meeting said criteria. No one is ever right, and no one is ever wrong.

[SBR]

As a Vette guy I commend Bloomington Gold for promoting the preservation of original cars. What I have seen though is a disturbing trend where cars are messaged heavily so that they can Benchmark. Why you may ask, money of course why else! I have seen cars over the years that have been completely repainted and bodies taken off the frame to clean chassis' engine repaints removed and they still pass for Benchmark. I have seen others with fender replaced and flares repaired and stock piles of NOS parts used from bumpers to taillights to door sills etc. etc. I persoanlly own a revivor as it was so put but I would rather be honest about it then participate in the continued deception that is running rampant in our hobbby. I guess I could pull the body off the frame and let the car age outside several years and who knows maybe I can have a benchmark car too! I think Bloomington needs to change their standards by measuring paint thickness for one or else the award that I used to hold in such high regard will be meaningless.