I know you guys will tell me like it is ..

[Fast67VelleN2O]

My neighbor drug an X22 car out of the woods here in jersey a few years back... had discs, booster, mounts, centerlink, console, shifter and the rustiest body i have ever seen with no rear or doors. I believe he got around 2200 for it....

[rat tuned]

i have never restored a car before. i have owned quite a few though. what happens if a guy with a camaro needs the piece below the windshield replaced? is it ok to remove the vin and reattach it to the replaced metal? this seems to be rotted on a lot of early camaros. what do you guys do about the special rivits? mike

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
i have never restored a car before. i have owned quite a few though. what happens if a guy with a camaro needs the piece below the windshield replaced? is it ok to remove the vin and reattach it to the replaced metal? this seems to be rotted on a lot of early camaros. what do you guys do about the special rivits? mike

[/ QUOTE ]

That does not contradict anything Steve said. With your example, you would still be putting the VIN back on the same car. Although Steve makes a valid point regarding the laws associated with removing VIN tags, there is a grey area when it comes to rebuilding cars or trucks. Walk into a reputable body shop these days and you will see roll-over pick-ups getting cabs from 'doner' trucks. This means that the VIN of one vehicle is used on the cab of another which insurance companies regularily do to avoid writing off a vehicle. Completely legal.

[68l30]

[ QUOTE ]

The National Insurance Crime Bureau NICB (the same people who keep records on where every car built was originally shipped) .......

[/ QUOTE ]


Fyi, Almost every car built....I know of a few that are not in the NICB system...How or why? It's a topic that was discussed at SCRX over a few


Steve

[Joe]

So steve you never answered the direct question , If i take that cowl and frame and rebuild a body on it . would that be acceptible ? What Legal Firm are you associated with ?
i called my lawer just for hahas and he said they do it everyday in Body shops , as mentioned above .
Remember , i'm not attacking anyone i Value any and all input . It seems at this piont its to controversial to get involved . If it had been more positive i would buy it .

[70CitrusZ]

Greetings,
This is a bit of a rant so please excuse me if it doesn't meet with your approval.
IMHO If you build a car off of that chunk of scrap, its still a car, and still a valid vin and even though its arguably not as desireable as one that "just" needed floors, trunk, quarters, fenders,and roof panels,and dash top and door skins (which is common and needed for most 1969 Camaros being restored nowadays), and by the way,not frowned upon.

Whats the difference? Unless your car is a complete original rust free example it is in some degree "re-bodied" anyway.
People will know the history of this vin now since its advertized on a national basis, so nobody will be able to fool anyone(read actual enthusiast or one that pays an actual enthusiast to check out the history) who does their homework on this car.

Is it sad? yes. Illegal? doubtful. Studid of the owner to cut off and chuck the rest of the car? yes, but in the eighties, when muscle car values were realistic, and nobody was worried about being finacially ruined by a crappy purchase of a musclecar, re-bodies were common place as opposed to trying to find nos body panels. It was cheaper and easier to find a clean body to use off another car. Most people didn't have the capability or parts availability for panel replacements at home, so doing a body swap was cheaper and easier. The cars weren't worth enough to justify the body shop charges involved in multi panel replacent.
Body shops did and continue to use scrap bodies to re-body damaged cars. I think how it works in body shops is as long as you have the paperwork and ownership on both cars involved you should be free from legal problems,but morally and in the interest of fair play, one should disclose the extent of the body panel replacement to the purchaser.
Maybe someone from the forum is in the bodyshop business and can enlighten us on how its done, but I think there is a requirement of paperwork of some kind..

The transferral of vins is only illegal because of auto theft reasons. Period. The government could really care less if your car was originally a 250 six or a ZL1 model for vin purposes. What they DO care about is a STOLEN car being re-vinned to hide its origins. The only other reason to get in hot water would be in the case of fraud charges, which I believe would be a civil case between seller and buyer of the vehicle if proven to be sold on false pretences. So, the only people who DO care about legitimate rebodies are people spending large amounts of coin for collector cars.
By the letter of the law, you can't swap vins. so, you could be in some paperwork tangle, but when the dust settles, I highly doubt someone gets thrown in jail for swapping vin tags between 2 cars HE owns and has the documents for.

Just to be clear !!this is ONLY MY OPINION, and is not stated as anything else but an opinion. I'm NOT a lawyer NOR am I a government official, so don't do anything based on this opinion!!!.
I get a little tired of rants of inpurities in what amounts to a grossly impure hobby in this day and age. With all the money involved people are willing to go to great lengths to produce "numbers matching", and fake cars etc. The sad thing is, its fueled by the people willing to fork out huge cash for these collector cars when they themselves aren't even enthusiasts, just rich people with a hankerin for whats in vogue right now. Personally It doesn't bother me to see a few of these idiots get burned. Maybe then the muscle car hobby can return to the real enthusiasts. Lets face it, if the values of these cars were lower, the people who care, would know what they are looking at anyway.
Also, to add more fuel to the fire, I'd be really surprised if more than 5 or 10% of all existing muscle cars are original and numbers matching to any reasonable degree, with some of the most desireable being the worst offenders.

This hobby is currently easily one of the most corrupt, and its definately a buyer beware situation. Heres the safe bet. Assume the worst of any vehicle purchased, and don't buy muscle cars as investments or trophies,spend the time to research a car before buying, and last but not least, buy them because you love them.

Mark

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Mark very well said!

[YenkoYS-199Stinger]

I will add a 2nd to what Mark said.

---------------------
Chris
1966 Yenko Stinger YS-070
1967 Yenko Stinger YS-199
Southeast of Disorder

[Joe]

well put Mark , in my eyes i wanted to save a x22 Daytona yellow car , thats it !

[SSJunkie68-69]

$5,177.77 was what it went for with 30 bids....