What do you all think would be a better project.?

[supergonzo]

Thats a little high for the bird, which would eat all of em' for lunch.

You'd be surprised the 351C is a good motor and certainly comparable to the 350 chubby.

[budnate]

If you are married with kids like me, save yourself a lot of greif from buying one that needs work, "work= very little time and spare money to correct a edgy car" and get the "71-Z that is a really cool car and still had a hot motor in it and if all the numbers are good on the car I would grab it in a heartbeat and enjoy it. Besides if you really need a 4-gear which I would too. down the road once you recover from buying it you can slide a 4spd in the car for about a grand and shelve the auto stuff for later.

Bud.

[442w30]

As what others have said, the Firebird is high. I assume it's a 400/330? They made plenty of 'em.

Z/28 sounds like it's a nice car. LT1s are cool.

The 351W from 1969 is not too impressive. The 351C of 1970 is more so. Nix the Stang.

The Cutlass never had a 400 unless it had the Turnpike Cruiser package. It was a 2bbl. so that does you no good. If this car has a 4bbl. and it's not a 442, it's either a TC car with the carb replaced or someone's doing some fibbing.

For the money, a '68-69 442 is a good deal. They are not too popular but they have style. Make sure you get a stick because the autos have less hp. Or, as an alternative, find a big Poncho with 428 power. They are great cruisers and, with the 428HO, are 14-seconds fast and extremely rare.

[D.Layman]

Arent Mach 1's more "desired" or "unique" than the Camaro's and FireBirds of the same era? Are they not generally worth more as well? This has the 351C 4V with a 4spd... I was reading some "stock" 1/4 mile times of some of these cars and suprisingly the "BOSS Mach 1" was only a hi 14 second to a low 15 second car... It had to be the gearing, no??

What do yall think a fair price would be for the bird? I may atleast make him an offer.. You all think the 400 in that bird has more umph than the other cars engines? I suppose that depends on if its a '69 400 or some late model engine..

I'm leaning hard towards the Z28 now as it just looks so darn clean and tight...
Maybe if I can figure out how, I can post some of the pictures for you all to look over....
Thanks again for all your input..
D

[StealthBird]

If it's a real 69 Firebird 400, they made 11,522 total Firebird 400's (with an another breakdown between hardtop and convertible). They're not that easy to restore because they don't share too many parts with the 69 Camaro (other than the usual GM cross over parts, like suspension, frame, etc). Another thing that's VERY annoying is that the 1969 Firebird was unique in the Firebird line. It doesn't share too many parts with the 67/68 Firebird, and the 70-81 are a different bird altogether. Fortunately, the repro companies are really starting to wake up to the 69 Firebird, but it's a long, slow process, and lots of incorrect repro parts (or Camaro parts) have been introduced in the last 10 years or so to cash in on the Musclecar boom of the 1990's.

Values for the 1st gen Birds are now at what 68-70 GTO's are. The 67-69 Birds nearly doubled in price in the last 5 years. I have NO idea why. A hardtop Firebird 400 around here just recently sold for $22,500. It was restored, but I noticed it had a lot of fiberglass repro parts, and a slightly modified engine.

A 67 Cutlass isn't that desirable, but the 442 line is unique and very desireable. The 67 Cutlass was not a Musclecar, the 442 was. Of course, if it's a convertible, the rules change. Ragtops haul big bucks, and sometimes people don't care whether it's a Cutlass, 442, or clone. They're all valuable.

The Mach 1 is good choice, lots of repro parts available. Not sure if the prices will continue to go up with the reintroduction of the new Mach 1, or the 2005 Mustang hitting the streets soon with the retro styling.

I would also vote for the 71 Z/28. They're just plain cool looking cars.

One thing nice about the Pontiacs, the build sheet is available through PHS. Most 67-69 Firebirds (6-cylinder, 326, or 350) have been cloned into 400 models, but the build sheet tells the story, and that's always available from an outside source (PHS).

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]
This has the 351C 4V with a 4spd... I was reading some "stock" 1/4 mile times of some of these cars and suprisingly the "BOSS Mach 1" was only a hi 14 second to a low 15 second car... It had to be the gearing, no??

[/ QUOTE ]

A Boss and a Mach I are two different models.

The Mach I came with the 351 Windsor in 1969. It had a 2bbl. standard, 4bbl. optional. From there, there was the 390 and the 428 Cobra Jet.

In 1970, the 4bbl. engine was of the Cleveland variant, which was a new engine despite sharing the 351 size. These engines are much better, apples to apples. However, most people in the hobby prefer the '69.

A stock 351 is probably no better than a high-14 car stock. There are few small-cube engines that are faster, such as the Boss 351 from 1971, W-31 Oldses, 340 Mopars, and L79 and LT1 Chevys. . . come to think of it, if you like the Olds, why not find a W-31? It's got everything going for it: rarity, looks, and performance.

If you're leaning towards the Camaro, that's fine. I don 't think you'll be disappointed, and if you want a 4-speed, you can sell it later for something that wouldn't equate to a loss for you.

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]
The Mach I came with the 351 Windsor in 1969. It had a 2bbl. standard, 4bbl. optional. From there, there was the 390 and the 428 Cobra Jet.

In 1970, the 4bbl. engine was of the Cleveland variant, which was a new engine despite sharing the 351 size. These engines are much better, apples to apples. However, most people in the hobby prefer the '69.

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason I thought the 351 Cleveland was available in the '69 Mach 1.
If you want to just get in and DRIVE the car with (or without) the wife n' kids, go for the Z! It sounds like a gas n' go deal and you can't go wrong with the investment... or styling.

But if the Mach I does have a 351 C, then I would think of investment potential. I heard the Clevelands are scarce.
Again, 442w30 is probably right, and the engine wasn't available in 1969.

All-in-all, being a Ponchohead, I'd vote for the 'Bird if'n it was me!


~Goat72

[jg95z28]

I'd first say the Olds because its more unique, less common and cheap. However $12,500 for a near mint 71 Z-28 with the RS trim package? IMO That's a steal even if it is an automatic.

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

Z28 would be my choice being you have a tight budget,also because you described it as near mint.The others will have to have more $$ spent and you never really know how much until you get started on one!Plus that model Z is starting to increase in value due to availiabilty of other older models.Just my 2 cents worth.Plus some women don't like it too much when you start spending grocery money on your Classic Car and the children start loosing weight(LOL)

Bobby